Another "help me decide" thread

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  • Ruffnek

    Master
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    I'm considering an LVPO for my 20" AR. This is my current go-to gun so it would be for general purpose use and durability is the prime consideration. I've found two scopes that I like in a price range that I can live with: the Steiner P4Xi, and the Sig Tango4. It seems like a pretty apples-to-apples comparison but I'm leaning toward the Sig for the FFP, zero stops, and MOTAC (I currently have a Comp M4s on the rifle). Has anyone owned both that could give me a comparison? Anybody got other suggestions? Anybody think I should just pick up an Aimpoint magnifier?

    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/9...x-24mm-1-2-moa-illuminated-p3tr-reticle-matte

    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...a-adjustments-first-focal-illuminated-reticle
     

    dhamby

    Sharpshooter
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    7   0   0
    May 1, 2013
    656
    18
    Crawfordsville area
    I would recommend the Sig for similar reasons and the glass is a little brighter in the Sig. Personal preference but I’ve come to love FFP lpvo’s with illumination because you can use them much like a red dot at 1x for quick target transition/cqb type rolls and then you have the reticle for a better shot placement and the added magnification. Best of both worlds and a more compact and often lighter option than a RDS with magnifier.
     

    seedubs1

    Master
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    Jan 17, 2013
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    What's your budget? There might be better stuff out there for what you're wanting to do.
    What do you want the reticle to do for you? Are you going to be ranging with the reticle or just using some good ol' Kentucky windage and swagging shots?

    The Steiner - It has German Schott glass, which is expensive and nice. It has an excellent illumination system that is the same as on their T5x line and is expensive and nice. I just can't figure out how they're making these and selling them as cheap as they are. Something has to give. I haven't seen anything regarding the quality of the erector assy and other guts in the scope, and my gut tells me this is where they're saving money. But there are lots of happy people using these, so the durability can't be too bad.

    The Sig Tango4 is nice, but with the closeouts on the Tango6 happening right now, there's no reason not to step up and grab a Tango6 if you're going with one of the Sigs. The Tango4 is a 1-4 made in the Philippines. The Tango6 is made by LOW in Japan. Definitely step up and grab one of the Tango 6's if you can swing the extra $100 or so. It's money well spent.

    Have you looked at:
    Trijicon Accupower - 1-4 built robustly with nice glass. Only downside is limited battery life
    Weaver Tac 1-5 - Made again by LOW in Japan. Very underappreciated. Downside is the reticle and illumination, but if you're OK with the reticle/illum, then it's a great choice
    Vortex PST 1-6 - Great option for the price. Made in the Philippines. Not quite as nice as the LOW Japan made optics in general, but you get a lot for your money with these.
     

    seedubs1

    Master
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    24   0   0
    Jan 17, 2013
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    Other questions:
    Is a 1-??? X optic really what you're wanting for a 20" rifle?
    Are you using the rifle for 3 gun, short range, or inside your house where 1x power is needed?
    Would you be happier with a 2-8, 2-10, etc... scope?

    Personally, I'm running 1-6x scope(s) on 14.5", 16", and other shorter rifles that are better handling than a 20" rifle. My longer rifles get higher magnification optics because I'm not needing 1x on them since they don't get used at close range or in house due to the shorter rifles handling better at the close distance stuff.

    Just some things to ponder.
     

    seedubs1

    Master
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    24   0   0
    Jan 17, 2013
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    Also.....No reason to go with a Red Dot and Magnifier these days. More components to break, heavier, more expensive, poor reticle option, etc..... Just absolutely no reason to do that these days.
     

    Ruffnek

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    10   0   0
    Other questions:
    Is a 1-??? X optic really what you're wanting for a 20" rifle?
    Are you using the rifle for 3 gun, short range, or inside your house where 1x power is needed?
    Would you be happier with a 2-8, 2-10, etc... scope?

    Personally, I'm running 1-6x scope(s) on 14.5", 16", and other shorter rifles that are better handling than a 20" rifle. My longer rifles get higher magnification optics because I'm not needing 1x on them since they don't get used at close range or in house due to the shorter rifles handling better at the close distance stuff.

    Just some things to ponder.

    Right now, my 20" is all I've got and the budget won't allow for any new toys. This is what some may call a life and liberty or SHTF gun so versatility is nice.
     

    nrgrams

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 100%
    16   0   0
    Jun 3, 2013
    641
    28
    Columbus
    I was going to suggest the Accupower. Great glass, nice reticle, heavy duty. Had one for quite some time on a 14.5" and loved it. A litte more loot than the 2 optics you mentioned, but IMHO, well worth the cost.

    What's your budget? There might be better stuff out there for what you're wanting to do.
    What do you want the reticle to do for you? Are you going to be ranging with the reticle or just using some good ol' Kentucky windage and swagging shots?

    The Steiner - It has German Schott glass, which is expensive and nice. It has an excellent illumination system that is the same as on their T5x line and is expensive and nice. I just can't figure out how they're making these and selling them as cheap as they are. Something has to give. I haven't seen anything regarding the quality of the erector assy and other guts in the scope, and my gut tells me this is where they're saving money. But there are lots of happy people using these, so the durability can't be too bad.

    The Sig Tango4 is nice, but with the closeouts on the Tango6 happening right now, there's no reason not to step up and grab a Tango6 if you're going with one of the Sigs. The Tango4 is a 1-4 made in the Philippines. The Tango6 is made by LOW in Japan. Definitely step up and grab one of the Tango 6's if you can swing the extra $100 or so. It's money well spent.

    Have you looked at:
    Trijicon Accupower - 1-4 built robustly with nice glass. Only downside is limited battery life
    Weaver Tac 1-5 - Made again by LOW in Japan. Very underappreciated. Downside is the reticle and illumination, but if you're OK with the reticle/illum, then it's a great choice
    Vortex PST 1-6 - Great option for the price. Made in the Philippines. Not quite as nice as the LOW Japan made optics in general, but you get a lot for your money with these.
     

    seedubs1

    Master
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    24   0   0
    Jan 17, 2013
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    I just sold sold mine barely used for just a shade over $500. You linked a couple opticsthat were right at $600. If your budget is $600, shop around and be patient. Black Friday is almost here as well.....

    Like I said.....the Tango6 1-6 can be had for under $650 right now.....

    Dont limit yourself to shopping at Midway and Brownells. Find a deal and get as much bang for your buck as you can.

    I'd love to have an Accupower but you're suggesting a Mercedes to someone on a Chevy budget.
     

    Ruffnek

    Master
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    10   0   0
    Just curious, why do you want FFP?

    It isn't necessarily a requirement but a big bonus, kinda like heated seats in a work truck. The reason I like it is due to the fact that you're not gonna be calculating and dialing in firing solutions on the fly with this type of setup. With that in mind, your BDC, MOA dots, or MIL marks being accurate at any magnification is somewhat important.
     

    Woobie

    Grandmaster
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    0   0   0
    Dec 19, 2014
    7,197
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    Losantville
    Gotcha. My PST is FFP, but I've found that if I have to range something, and it is far enough to need accurate ranging, I'm on full power anyway.
     

    Dean C.

    Master
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    2   0   0
    Aug 25, 2013
    4,429
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    Westfield
    I would wait and find an AccuPower on sale they are good scopes and I trust Trijicon to make "bombproof" scopes as you said durability was a concern. I have the 1-8 version and it is a 100% kick ass scope and honestly some of the best $$ I have ever spent.
     

    Woobie

    Grandmaster
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    Dec 19, 2014
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    Losantville
    Durability is important, but there a few brands making very tough scopes with great warranties. How much abuse do you see this scope getting?
     

    Dean C.

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    Aug 25, 2013
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    Westfield
    Not sure, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. Right now there's a Comp M4s on the rifle if that tells you anything.

    Get the Trijicon then, I had a piece of reticle come loose on my 1-8 and they replaced the entire scope at no charge to myself. Since then I have about 3K rounds through the scope with no issues at all, and it maintained 0 despite living in a trunk for a couple months and repeated dropping. Only real downside to the Accupower 1-4 is the illumination is not the best.
     

    Woobie

    Grandmaster
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    Dec 19, 2014
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    Losantville
    Not sure, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. Right now there's a Comp M4s on the rifle if that tells you anything.

    Sure thing. If it were me I would go Vortex or Trijicon for durability. There are some other really great scopes with great warranties. But a lot of them will drift outside your budget. I don't know anything about the Steiner or Sig offerings. The Army uses a lot of Steiner binos, and I really like those.
     

    Woobie

    Grandmaster
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    0   0   0
    Dec 19, 2014
    7,197
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    Losantville
    Get the Trijicon then, I had a piece of reticle come loose on my 1-8 and they replaced the entire scope at no charge to myself. Since then I have about 3K rounds through the scope with no issues at all, and it maintained 0 despite living in a trunk for a couple months and repeated dropping. Only real downside to the Accupower 1-4 is the illumination is not the best.

    Clumsy?
     
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