Talk me out of wanting a FFP LPVO

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  • Ruffnek

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    Just ordered a 6.5 Grendel pistol kit. Looking at the info on the round (never had one before) it seems like this may wind up being my new go-to gun. My current defensive/life and liberty rifle wears a Comp M4s so this will be new territory for me. I've noticed that many of the current offerings in this category are SFP and most people seem to be fine with that. I just can't understand why anyone would like the idea of being forced to go with a the absolute highest magnification for their BDC or MIL/MOA subtensions to be correct.

    My understanding is that I'd use the optic like a red dot at close range and like a scope when cranking the magnification. In that scenario, I wouldn't want or need to see the entire reticle at 1x, just an illuminated chevron/horseshoe/dot.

    In searching for an answer, I've seen so many instances of "If you're using magnification, you're probably going to have it cranked all the way up." That kind of makes sense if you're using a 1-4x, where the range of magnification isn't that broad but, as someone posted in another thread, 1-6x and 1-8x are the norm nowadays. With that broad range, it isn't hard to envision a time when max magnification is too much, but you need more than 1x. Also, what if you don't get all the way to the top when turning up the magnification without realizing it for whatever reason?

    Disclaimer: Too many times I've been discussing something here on INGO and people get mad when I ask follow-up questions about what they're saying. I'm not here to be belligerent, and I don't want to argue, but please don't get mad if you give me your "perfect" answer and I question it or ask if X might be better than what you suggested.
     

    seedubs1

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    I have yet to use my 1-6 at anything other than 1 or 6x. I could see usage with a 1-8x, though. It'd be nice to have a usable reticle at 1x, 4x, and 8x.

    Illumination typically suffers with FFP as well unless they're truly doing a dual focal plane (both FFP and SFP).

    It's also really hard to get a 1-6 or 8x FFP reticle design that is well balanced and works well at all magnifications. Seems the dot and reticle is either huge and cluttered at max mag or unusable at 1x magnification. But the designs are getting better.
     

    Ruffnek

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    I have yet to use my 1-6 at anything other than 1 or 6x. I could see usage with a 1-8x, though. It'd be nice to have a usable reticle at 1x, 4x, and 8x.

    Illumination typically suffers with FFP as well unless they're truly doing a dual focal plane (both FFP and SFP).

    It's also really hard to get a 1-6 or 8x FFP reticle design that is well balanced and works well at all magnifications. Seems the dot and reticle is either huge and cluttered at max mag or unusable at 1x magnification. But the designs are getting better.
    Well I'm thinking about something like a plain MIL dot reticle or the PA KISS reticle, since nobody makes a BDC for the Grendel.
     

    King31

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    Nov 10, 2013
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    This is what mine looks like with a Vortex Strike Eagle 1-8. I notice just a little issue when on 8 power but it goes away past 25 yards. For a SHTF rifle I see no need for the scope to be on the highest magnification. I just used mine for accuracy purposes and would turn it back down. For hunting, I've always liked around a 2-4.

    zECCZjp.jpg
     

    Ggreen

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    I've got an swfa 1-4 ffp on a 300blk i use for hunting, and i can't think of a better optic for this specific rifle and purpose. It's illuminated which is nice as a contrast in a dark woods backdrop.
     

    romack991

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    This is what mine looks like with a Vortex Strike Eagle 1-8. I notice just a little issue when on 8 power but it goes away past 25 yards. For a SHTF rifle I see no need for the scope to be on the highest magnification. I just used mine for accuracy purposes and would turn it back down. For hunting, I've always liked around a 2-4.

    Thats a SFP.

    I've got an swfa 1-4 ffp on a 300blk i use for hunting, and i can't think of a better optic for this specific rifle and purpose. It's illuminated which is nice as a contrast in a dark woods backdrop.

    SWFA 1-4 is SFP too according to their website. There are a few 1-4 FFP scopes but they aren't common since usually you'll be at max power if you are concerned with drop.

    Majority of LPVO are SFP. If your reticle doesn't change size when you zoom in or out. It's a SFP. Negative to this is the reticle is only accurate at max power. FFP scales with the magnification so the reticle is always accurate. Down side to FFP is balancing the design of the reticle so its visible/useful at both min and max magnification.



    I wanted to try one of the Trijicon or Burris 1-8 FFP scopes but haven't seen them in person yet. Not sure how I'd like the reticle or not.
    PA had their 1-6 FFP Raptor ACSS cheap on BF so I bought one just to play with and then probably resell. But sounded like they would be backordered until Feb.
     

    Ruffnek

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    This is what mine looks like with a Vortex Strike Eagle 1-8. I notice just a little issue when on 8 power but it goes away past 25 yards. For a SHTF rifle I see no need for the scope to be on the highest magnification. I just used mine for accuracy purposes and would turn it back down. For hunting, I've always liked around a 2-4.

    zECCZjp.jpg

    Is that the 12" Grendel kit from PSA?
     

    Rookie

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    Sep 22, 2008
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    Kokomo
    I don't have anything to say about the scope, but I'm loving my 6.5 Grendel. I'm shooting less than 1 inch groups at 200 yards. I haven't had a coyote get up after being hit by one. This spring/summer, I'm hoping to develop a load with 90 grain bullets.
     

    Hop

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    Jan 21, 2008
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    It's too bad the Vortex pst 1-4 tmcq illuminated was discontinued. I really like that thing. I got a refurb from A&A.

    Say a bad guy is hunkered down behind a car at some unknown long distance and you barely have a head sized target to hit to stop the carnage. An ffp scope will be the quickest way to range and put rounds into the baddy.

    Using Tapatalk to annoy my INGO buddies cameramonkey & churchmouse. Hi!
     

    42769vette

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    I think you bring up a good point. 1-? FFP's are hard due to the reticle being so small on 1x they are impossible to use. At scopes progress to higher zoom ranges (IE 1-6, 1-8, 1-10) FFP starts to make sense in LPVO. Personally I feel like 8x top zoom has value. Under that I feel its a 1x, or a 4x/5x/6x. Where FFP really makes sense is on fast dropping bullets like 300 BLK with sub's, 9mm Carbine, etc. With those caliber's you might be using a little holdover at 75 yards, and not be using max zoom.

    If you decide to do a FFP, I bought some of these and got a hell of a buy, that I would be happy to pass on. I never really got around to listing them for sale, but new they were 1200-1300 bucks. Id be well under 1/2 that.

    https://www.eurooptic.com/bushnell-elite-tactical-rifle-scope-et1624f.aspx
    '
     

    seedubs1

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    The Bushy SMRS ET1626's have been selling for $650 on quite a few reputable sites. Combine it with the Bushy $200 rebate that they seem to have every couple months (it's not going on right now), and you have a LOW Japan 1-6.5 scope for $450.

    I have nothing but good things to say about my SMRS and Sig Tango 6's. Right now, there's ridiculous deals on scopes, and $450-650 gets you into Japanese made SFP 1-6's with those two models, and they have good usable reticles, illumination, and are all around stupid good buys.

    I think you bring up a good point. 1-? FFP's are hard due to the reticle being so small on 1x they are impossible to use. At scopes progress to higher zoom ranges (IE 1-6, 1-8, 1-10) FFP starts to make sense in LPVO. Personally I feel like 8x top zoom has value. Under that I feel its a 1x, or a 4x/5x/6x. Where FFP really makes sense is on fast dropping bullets like 300 BLK with sub's, 9mm Carbine, etc. With those caliber's you might be using a little holdover at 75 yards, and not be using max zoom.

    If you decide to do a FFP, I bought some of these and got a hell of a buy, that I would be happy to pass on. I never really got around to listing them for sale, but new they were 1200-1300 bucks. Id be well under 1/2 that.

    https://www.eurooptic.com/bushnell-elite-tactical-rifle-scope-et1624f.aspx
    '
     

    42769vette

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    The Bushy SMRS ET1626's have been selling for $650 on quite a few reputable sites. Combine it with the Bushy $200 rebate that they seem to have every couple months (it's not going on right now), and you have a LOW Japan 1-6.5 scope for $450.

    I have nothing but good things to say about my SMRS and Sig Tango 6's. Right now, there's ridiculous deals on scopes, and $450-650 gets you into Japanese made SFP 1-6's with those two models, and they have good usable reticles, illumination, and are all around stupid good buys.


    Correct, The SMRS is the SFP version to the best of my knowledge. I'm offering the FFP version for the same money with the BRT-1 reticle. One thing about the reticle on this FFP scope is even on 1x it is very usable.

    Basically I bought a huge package, and picked out what I wanted, and made my money on the deal there. These are whats left, Id have to look, but I think I have 3 left.
     

    Dean C.

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    Aug 25, 2013
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    I LOVE my FFP 1-8 Trijicon Accupower , as others have said the 1-8 really gives you options magnification wise and I often find myself leaving it on 4 or 5 power occasionally instead of either 1 or 8.

    IMHO the reticle "scales up" very well as showing in the photos in my review link. Plus it's Trijicon so you know it's bombproof, left my rifle in my trunk for 2 months just for kicks to see how the Seekins Precision Mount and 45 degree offset RMR mount would hold up and they still retained zero (not surprised at all just wanted to test them for science)

    https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...rijicon-accupower1-8-range-report-review.html
     

    Ruffnek

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    I think you bring up a good point. 1-? FFP's are hard due to the reticle being so small on 1x they are impossible to use. At scopes progress to higher zoom ranges (IE 1-6, 1-8, 1-10) FFP starts to make sense in LPVO. Personally I feel like 8x top zoom has value. Under that I feel its a 1x, or a 4x/5x/6x. Where FFP really makes sense is on fast dropping bullets like 300 BLK with sub's, 9mm Carbine, etc. With those caliber's you might be using a little holdover at 75 yards, and not be using max zoom.

    If you decide to do a FFP, I bought some of these and got a hell of a buy, that I would be happy to pass on. I never really got around to listing them for sale, but new they were 1200-1300 bucks. Id be well under 1/2 that.

    https://www.eurooptic.com/bushnell-elite-tactical-rifle-scope-et1624f.aspx
    '
    EXTREMELY interested.
     
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