How do you decide on an ACOG?

[teddy12b]

Lately I've been reading a lot about Acogs and I'm curious how a person even decides between all the options out there. I get there's a difference between an Army or Marine version, but for a civilian what tends to be a common type to buy or what do people even look for? Personally, I like the idea of putting one on an M4gery or something like that that with a specific ammo would match up perfectly to the reticle. I don't know if that actually works out because I've never seen it happen on any other BDC type of reticle, but if there's a combo that matches up with a match bullet that'd be ideal.

Thoughts?

 

[Alpo]

You'd be better off with:

But, whaddaiknow?

 

[42769vette]

You'd be better off with:

But, whaddaiknow?

Please explain how you know for a fact he is better with that without knowing his purpose

 

[cerebus85]

what is the OP's original purpose?

 

[Alpo]

Please explain how you know for a fact he is better with that without knowing his purpose

Well, there were a number of hints:

1) M4gery.
2) Civilian usage. He's actually going to use the thing.

3) I issued a disclaimer.

4) You gave yourself allowance to criticize my post, but you offer no advice to the OP. That says more than anything.

 

[patience0830]

Well, there were a number of hints:

1) M4gery.
2) Civilian usage. He's actually going to use the thing.

3) I issued a disclaimer.

4) You gave yourself allowance to criticize my post, but you offer no advice to the OP. That says more than anything.

That says Allen is smart enough to ask for info b4 giving advice. Unlike Alpo.

 

[patience0830]

But, whaddaiknow?

We don't have enough data points to answer this question.

 

[Alpo]

You also fail to respond to the OP. At least I offered an opinion.

 

[rosejm]

with a specific ammo would match up perfectly to the reticle. I don't know if that actually works out because I've never seen it happen on any other BDC type of reticle, but if there's a combo that matches up with a match bullet that'd be ideal.

The BDC will rarely match exactly. It should be minute-of-man for some cartridges in your rifle. That's what they're designed for: quickly ranging and engaging man sized targets.
But that's going to be trial and error, and lots of DOPE so you know the holdover/under.

Even those that advertise a specific barrel length and bullet weight, are still making assumptions about muzzle velocity & BC for that bullet.
You'll likely find that even different manufacturers cartridges with the same bullet/"load" will have very different POI. EG: Lake City XM193 != IMI XM193

 

[42769vette]

You also fail to respond to the OP. At least I offered an opinion.

The point I was trying to make is you didn't offer an opinion, you offered a fact.

"You would be better off with this" That is a factual statement. "I think you would be better off with this" is an opinion. I usto post in these threads all the time, I dont anymore because folks post "x is fact, when they could/are wrong" and its a waste of my time. Fact would be 5.56 is smaller than 7.62. My point blank way of talking typically pisses folks off, so Im better off staying clear unless messaged directly. I never learned the salesmanship of sugarvcoating.

To the OP, I don't follow ACOG's enough to make a good recommendation. I STRONGLY prefer LPVO to ACOG's so I just don't pay attention. I will say for a fact that ACOG's hold advantages in certain situations over red dots. I will also say red dot's hold an advantage over ACOG's in certain situations. I do not believe (<---dictates opinion) a ACOG holds an advantage over a LPVO in any situation. That said, I believe you and I have talked enough over the years to know that.

 

[1775usmarine]

Me personally I would buy an ACOG that I used when I was in. I had no issues with it and we weren't gentle with our M4's overseas.

 

[Hop]

I like mine. It's a TA31-ECOS 4x with a BDC crosshair. It has an RMR sitting up top + a rain sight on the top left.

LPVO were not popular nor very good when I bought it. LPVO are much better now. It would be harder choice ACOG vs LPVO now.

I did really well with it at the Revere's Riders Atterbury Army qualification test (scanning for & hitting pop up Ivan targets between 50-300 yards, against the clock).

It's calibrated for M855 out of a 14.5" Colt M4 profile barrel and that's exactly what I am using. I have shot "Rifleman" several times out to 400 yards with this combo. Like most BDC, it doesn't exactly match up but it's very close.

 

[MindfulMan]

I like mine. It's a TA31-ECOS 4x with a BDC crosshair. It has an RMR sitting up top + a rain sight on the top left.

LPVO were not popular nor very good when I bought it. LPVO are much better now. It would be harder choice ACOG vs LPVO now.

I did really well with it at the Revere's Riders Atterbury Army qualification test (scanning for & hitting pop up Ivan targets between 50-300 yards, against the clock).

It's calibrated for M855 out of a 14.5" Colt M4 profile barrel and that's exactly what I am using. I have shot "Rifleman" several times out to 400 yards with this combo. Like most BDC, it doesn't exactly match up but it's very close.

I'm not trying to be a wise guy (so if it's just a typo, I'm not poking fun at you), but what's a "rain sight" ?

 

[teddy12b]

I appreciate the passionate discussion here guys. I've never owned an ACOG and my interest in them in is purely out of their reputation for durability and my curiosity about them. I had an M16A4 with iron sights back in the day, so we didn't get the high speed gear that's out there today.

Couple things I was curious about was if what I'm calling the ballistic drop reticles actually matched up like they're supposed to. I've owned a number of bdc reticle scopes over the years and have never had something that matched up perfectly. If it meant getting a colt socom pinned 14.5" AR with 193 or 855 ammo or whatever combination to make it all match up and work effectively then I'd probably be interested. I like the idea of using this optic on a rifle range, in a competition or hunting situation. I have no desire to go play good guys vs bad guys on a two way shooting range, but since the ACOG has been vetted by so many the quality of it appeals to me.

So honestly, I don't know if an ACOG is a good fit for me. I'd use it and abuse it more than most out there will admit, but I'll also be the first to say that it'll primarily be a range rifle. Part of my concern with them is also the newest reticles they offer. If there was a non BDC type reticle that could be used across the board with different bullet weights then that could be a good fit too.

I have an Aimpoint Pro, and it's a fine optic that I have no complaints with. It does everything I could ask, but in this case I'd like to see what an ACOG can do that an Aimpoint Pro can't which is really having a reticle that I could work with for distance.

Allen knows what I like in scopes and we've talked to great extent in the past. I'm not trying to sound snobbish in saying this, but nobody else's opinion is as valued in my mind when it comes to optics than his. He's proven that to me time and time again over a period of years.

So working through this, is there an ACOG reticle that's either mil or MOA based that's not a BDC type? On the website I don't see any, but that doesn't always mean that they aren't out there, like their new acss reticle.

Thanks for all the help guys.

 

[42769vette]

I appreciate the passionate discussion here guys. I've never owned an ACOG and my interest in them in is purely out of their reputation for durability and my curiosity about them. I had an M16A4 with iron sights back in the day, so we didn't get the high speed gear that's out there today.

Couple things I was curious about was if what I'm calling the ballistic drop reticles actually matched up like they're supposed to. I've owned a number of bdc reticle scopes over the years and have never had something that matched up perfectly. If it meant getting a colt socom pinned 14.5" AR with 193 or 855 ammo or whatever combination to make it all match up and work effectively then I'd probably be interested. I like the idea of using this optic on a rifle range, in a competition or hunting situation. I have no desire to go play good guys vs bad guys on a two way shooting range, but since the ACOG has been vetted by so many the quality of it appeals to me.

So honestly, I don't know if an ACOG is a good fit for me. I'd use it and abuse it more than most out there will admit, but I'll also be the first to say that it'll primarily be a range rifle. Part of my concern with them is also the newest reticles they offer. If there was a non BDC type reticle that could be used across the board with different bullet weights then that could be a good fit too.

I have an Aimpoint Pro, and it's a fine optic that I have no complaints with. It does everything I could ask, but in this case I'd like to see what an ACOG can do that an Aimpoint Pro can't which is really having a reticle that I could work with for distance.

Allen knows what I like in scopes and we've talked to great extent in the past. I'm not trying to sound snobbish in saying this, but nobody else's opinion is as valued in my mind when it comes to optics than his. He's proven that to me time and time again over a period of years.

So working through this, is there an ACOG reticle that's either mil or MOA based that's not a BDC type? On the website I don't see any, but that doesn't always mean that they aren't out there, like their new acss reticle.

Thanks for all the help guys.

Ive never heard of an ACOG with MIL, or MOA. ACOG is a "KISS" type optic not a precision type optic. They want to be able to hand it to some 18 year old who doesn't know what end to look through, and in 5 minutes make it to where he can be close enough to scare at 500 yards. Not that they can not be more precision orientated, but that was not the idea they were designed with.

 

[Usmccookie]

Ive never heard of an ACOG with MIL, or MOA. ACOG is a "KISS" type optic not a precision type optic. They want to be able to hand it to some 18 year old who doesn't know what end to look through, and in 5 minutes make it to where he can be close enough to scare at 500 yards. Not that they can not be more precision orientated, but that was not the idea they were designed with.

I was that 20 year old hitting 500. And yes, I was confused as to which side to look through. But I was say that they are tough as nails. I've seen one dropped out of an osprey. The rifle was absolutely done, the rco was good to go. I agree with allen, but a rco is a battle proven optic that has its advantages.

 

[Alpo]

I guess I'm more price sensitive. An ACOG used to run $1,000+. I haven't checked lately. My son has one and I liked the clarity of the optic, but it was bulky and engineered for battle conditions. An Aimpoint or my Leupold VxR patrol handle most of my needs out to 150 with no thought on bullet trajectory (other than 10 yards in), and drop out at 300 is about 9 to 10". No real need for bullet compensation unless precision shooting is in order. In that case, the ACOG wouldn't be the right choice either.

And that's an opinion, Allen. Not a fact. INGOpinion.

 

[teddy12b]

The price point is exactly why I have an Aimpoint Pro already and don't have an ACOG. It's a fair thing to mention. What I'm seeing more of is ACOG's for sale that have had some very light use or the person just got tired of them.

Very rarely do I ever go to the range and only shoot to 300 yards. It's just not fun for me anymore unless I'm really stretching the legs out for the gun.

 

[Alpo]

The old 50 yard zero is your friend then. No real need to worry about + or - out to 225.

 

[Ggreen]

A red dot is not an acceptable replacement if you want an acog. Neither is an lpvo.

When you want an acog you want a low magnification optic with no moving parts. They are tough as nails with integrated mounts vs rings. They have reference reticles that will put you dead center of a silhouette at any marked range with just a 25meter zero.

I proved this by using my 14.5 dd m4a1 at last year's marty brown memorial with a ta110 shooting 55gr surplus and scoring marksman without any difficulty or adjustments. I held for wind, but elevation was held strictly to the holdover. I only combat zeroed prior to the event and shot fine out to 400.

Picking one is not so easy.

Start by defining your desired magnification. 3.5 was about perfect for me.
-as magnification increases your relief decreases. 3.5 has a big eye box.

Pick a reticle. I like the carrot for speed and ease of use.any reticle can be doped just like a mil reticle, just fewer points. Time, ammo and a notebook. Bdc isn't locked into a certain round, you can use them however you like. Know your dope.

You won't regret an acog. They are rock solid optics and imo as important to field service rifles as peep sights.