Is steel core pistol ammo illegal?

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  • Johnny C

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    I just heard it was cause it is cop killer ammo or some such stupidity.

    If this is true, then if I had an AK pistol and loaded it up with some surplus steel core 7.62X39 I would instantly become a felon? or would even having the ammo be illegal?

    Johnny C
     

    eldirector

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    Does steel core == armor piercing?

    From Indiana Code 35-47-5
    IC 35-47-5-11
    "Armor-piercing handgun ammunition" defined; related offenses
    Sec. 11. (a) As used in this section, "armor-piercing handgun ammunition" means a cartridge that:
    (1) can be fired in a handgun; and
    (2) will, upon firing, expel a projectile that has a metal core and an outer coating of plastic.
    (b) A person who knowingly or intentionally:
    (1) manufactures;
    (2) possesses;
    (3) transfers possession of; or
    (4) offers to transfer possession of;
    armor-piercing handgun ammunition commits a Class C felony.
    (c) This section does not apply to nylon coated ammunition, plastic shot capsules, or ammunition designed to be used in rifles or shotguns.
    (d) This section does not apply to a law enforcement officer who is acting in the course of the officer's official duties or to a person who manufactures or imports for sale or sells armor-piercing handgun ammunition to a law enforcement agency.
     

    GARANDGUY

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    "Cop killers" or so they were called were Black Talons. To save you the history lesson on true BT ammo lets just say who ever told you steel core ammo was illegal is FOS. If it were you couldnt buy M855. Besides I think Black Talons were only made in pistol calibers anyway.
     

    SmileDocHill

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    So can you "manufacture" steel core ammo or are you limited to casting lead or Brass only? I'm talking about personal use not for sale or use by others.
     

    kludge

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    Does steel core == armor piercing?

    In a handgun, no. (As far as INDIANA law is concerned.)

    "a projectile that has a metal core and an outer coating of plastic."

    As far as federal law is concerned, yes.

    "Cop killers" or so they were called were Black Talons. To save you the history lesson on true BT ammo lets just say who ever told you steel core ammo was illegal is FOS. If it were you couldnt buy M855. Besides I think Black Talons were only made in pistol calibers anyway.

    Black Talon isn't "armor piercing" and was never plastic or teflon coated and was never banned. Winchester stopped making it because of all the anti-gun news media publicity and public confusion on the matter. (And by "armor piercing handgun ammunition" we're talking about soft body armor, not the hardened steel armor plating used on armored vehicles.) The armor piercing handgun bullet controversy was over the KTW bullet (made by North American Ordnance Corp.) that was teflon coated and puportedly could penetrate *many* layers of kevlar.

    Green tip M855 (SS109 bullet) has a steel "penetrator" tip and is not classified as armor piercing regardless of what signs at the gun show say -- the core is not made entirely of steel, it's mostly lead. The ATF has specifically exempted the 5.56 NATO M855 and the .30-06 M2 ball ammo from the armor piercing list (There's so much M2 out there that they could never hope to get it all back), but 7.62 NATO AP and the very cheap steel core 7.62x39 are on the list -- thanks to some idiot who made an AK pistol -- yes he knew what would happen. (There's also still a bunch of steel core 7.62x39 ammo out there). AP rifle ammo (the kind that will penetrate steel armor) is not illegal to own or buy.

    The federal law that governs "armor piercing" ammo, is for ammo that can be fired from a handgun (there's not a kevlar vest in the world that will stop a rifle bullet, even the ones that are lead core.)

    So if you had handgun SLAP handgun ammo, that would be illegal?

    Shoot, there goes my .50BMG handgun dream :(.

    7.62 NATO AP and SLAP are on the list.

    More info here:

    rec.guns FAQ: II.G.1. Federal Law and AP Ammunition
     
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    GARANDGUY

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    In a handgun, no. (As far as INDIANA law is concerned.)

    "a projectile that has a metal core and an outer coating of plastic."

    As far as federal law is concerned, yes.



    Black Talon isn't "armor piercing" and was never plastic or teflon coated and was never banned. Winchester stopped making it because of all the anti-gun news media publicity and public confusion on the matter. (And by "armor piercing handgun ammunition" we're talking about soft body armor, not the hardened steel armor plating used on armored vehicles.) The armor piercing handgun bullet controversy was over the KTW bullet (made by North American Ordnance Corp.) that was teflon coated and puportedly could penetrate *many* layers of kevlar.

    Green tip M855 (SS109 bullet) has a steel "penetrator" tip and is not classified as armor piercing regardless of what signs at the gun show say -- the core is not made entirely of steel, it's mostly lead. The ATF has specifically exempted the 5.56 NATO M855 and the .30-06 M2 ball ammo from the armor piercing list (There's so much M2 out there that they could never hope to get it all back), but 7.62 NATO AP and the very cheap steel core 7.62x39 are on the list -- thanks to some idiot who made an AK pistol -- yes he knew what would happen. (There's also still a bunch of steel core 7.62x39 ammo out there). AP rifle ammo (the kind that will penetrate steel armor) is not illegal to own or buy.

    The federal law that governs "armor piercing" ammo, is for ammo that can be fired from a handgun (there's not a kevlar vest in the world that will stop a rifle bullet, even the ones that are lead core.)



    7.62 NATO AP and SLAP are on the list.

    More info here:

    rec.guns FAQ: II.G.1. Federal Law and AP Ammunition

    Thanks for the clarification. I knew what ya said about the M855 and the M2 ball as I have alot of it stored in the safe. I didnt know about the BT ammo vs the KTW though. Thanks for the lesson and clarification sir.:patriot:
     

    Kirk Freeman

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    "Cop killers" or so they were called were Black Talons.

    GG, with respect, the so-called "cop killer bullet" of the 1980s was the old KTW round. The Black Talon was not around until the 90s.

    When the antis started with the old KTW bullet they were educated criminals that police wear vests. They accomplished absolutely nothing.

    The Black Talon was confused with the KTW because of the name (black, it was be eeevil), the expansion of the bullet caused alleged concern by the operating surgeons (the petals cut the gloves), and the misinformation of the police and anti-gun groups who claimed that the Black Talon bullet penetrated police armour in order to obtain bigger budgets.

    Here is an old KTW round:



    Note that in the 1990s the feeble Federal Nyclad was also mislabeled as "armour piercing" as the media somehow spread the notion that the coating of the bullet (the Nyclad was blue coated to help prevent lead dust at indoor ranges) caused the bullet to be armour piercing. This stupidity was codified into Indiana law.:D

    Note that the Indiana statute was written for the old KTW round, not the cool new stuff like the Cyclones that the feds use or the THV round.
     

    Iroquois

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    Banana clips are illegal too.....

    How else you gonna toke a banana ?
    But seriously the main reason to use teflon to coat a bullet is ease of application, as it can be sprayed or dipped on. It also has a high heat
    tolerance. On a soft lead bullet it would be great on barrels and cheaper than
    copper.It would add little to any sort of penetration .
     

    GARANDGUY

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    GG, with respect, the so-called "cop killer bullet" of the 1980s was the old KTW round. The Black Talon was not around until the 90s.

    When the antis started with the old KTW bullet they were educated criminals that police wear vests. They accomplished absolutely nothing.

    The Black Talon was confused with the KTW because of the name (black, it was be eeevil), the expansion of the bullet caused alleged concern by the operating surgeons (the petals cut the gloves), and the misinformation of the police and anti-gun groups who claimed that the Black Talon bullet penetrated police armour in order to obtain bigger budgets.

    Here is an old KTW round:



    Note that in the 1990s the feeble Federal Nyclad was also mislabeled as "armour piercing" as the media somehow spread the notion that the coating of the bullet (the Nyclad was blue coated to help prevent lead dust at indoor ranges) caused the bullet to be armour piercing. This stupidity was codified into Indiana law.:D

    Note that the Indiana statute was written for the old KTW round, not the cool new stuff like the Cyclones that the feds use or the THV round.
    thank you sir for that info. guess you do learn something new everyday. Rep for you.
     

    benchrest500

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    I remember that old steel core 7.62 stuff,

    You don't want to be around when someone is blasting it into a steel plate, steel pins (the core) fly EVERYWHERE even back at you, not something I want to experience again.

    All the media rage over ammo started when that guy in I think NYC got on the subway with a P89 Ruger and several over capacity mags and started blasting people on the train. I think some survivors rushed him when he was fumbling with another clip.

    Everything went downhill rapidly from there combined with Clinton in the White House then I think it was in California a law suit was started to make gun manufactures liable for street shootings, then Colt stopped making most of their handguns and still don't make any double action revolvers anymore.

    Yes one Jackass has the power to influence millions of idiots, I was wincing when Gabrielle Giffords got shot I just knew it was all going to start over but I guess the media morons had too many topics to choose from and it fell off the radar.

    Both incidents were horrible tragedies but it doesn't change the fact the guns nor the ammo ran out there and shot these people.

    Not to sound harsh here but I don't remember any shots being fired when Timothy McVeigh drove into Oklahoma City nor do I remember any when the boys from Al-Qaeda flew into New York City and DC on 9-11.

    I don't know of any handgun that can do that kind of carnage but if it comes around I'm sure it will be banned.

    I'm sure some won't be happy until each and every human on the planet has had arms and legs removed to prevent any violence, Hmmmm Monty Python just popped into my mind,
     

    palerider0485

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    i have read the indiana law someone posted but still not quit sure. i always thought you couldnt shoot steel cored ammo in a handgun???? but some have suggested other wise. dos anyone have a clear cut answer??? can i shoot the steel core 5.7 x 28 rounds in my 5.7 pistol as well as rifle???
     

    Steve B

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    I'm not sure what these are any more. S&W from the early 80's. 9mm HP w/blue coating. Just thought I'd throw it out there since you're showing some old coated type bullets.

     
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