XM193 or XM855 bulk 5.56 ammo ?

[jkirby]

i'm getting ready to buy some bulk 5.56 ammo and was wondering besides one being 55gr and the other 62 gr what is the difference between the XM193 and the XM855 lake city ammo and is one better than the other. I'll be shooting this out of a Rock River Arms midlength Lar-15 with 1x9 twist chrome lined barrel.

 

[chuddly]

read on this link - The AR15.com Ammo Oracle

There is ALOT of info there but it gives you a real good jump on what will work best. The short of it is -

Q. Why did the US Military adopt M855 for the M16?

M855 and M856 are newer rounds developed in the late 1970s by Fabrique Nationale (FN) of Belgium. FN was developing a new 5.56mm belt-fed machine gun they called the "Minimi" (Mini-Machinegun) for entry into the US military's Squad Automatic Weapon (SAW) program. The SAW was to augment, and in many cases replace, the 7.62×51mm M60 made by Saco Defense (now part of the General Dynamics Armament Division). Because there was a lot of resistance to giving up larger, longer-range round of the M60, FN focused on making the SAW perform better at longer ranges than existing 5.56 platforms (i.e., the M16). They did this primarily by developing new bullets: the SS-109 "ball" round and the L-110 tracer.

The SS-109 bullet uses a "compound" core, with a lead base topped by a steel penetrator, all covered in a gilding-metal (copper alloy) jacket. The L-110 tracer bullet has a copper-plated steel jacket and like all tracer bullets, is hollowed out at the base and filled with tracing compound. Both bullets are much longer in length than the earlier 55gr bullets, especially the L-110 tracer, which was designed to trace out to 800m, verses 450m for the older M196 tracer round. Due to their increased length, these bullets require a faster rifling twist to be properly stabilized. The military settled on a twist rate of 1:7, which is a compromise between the 1:9 twist ideal for SS-109 bullets and the 1:6 twist ideal for L-110 tracers.

Remember, the goal of these new bullets was improving long range performance. For example, the SS-109 bullet was proven to have better penetration of the then-current-issue steel helmet at 600m than the M80 "ball" ammo fired by the M60. The M80 ammo was not able to penetrate both sides of the helmet at that distance; the SS-109 bullet could. The L-110 tracers provided a visible trace out to 800m, which was seen as the maximum effective range of the SAW. These improvements in long-range performance satisfied the military and the US ultimately adopted the Minimi as the M249 SAW. They also adopted the new FN bullets and the US specs for the loaded rounds are called M855 and M856.

About the time the SAW was adopted, the M16 "A2 revision" program was underway and it was decided to adopt the new SAW ammo (and its rifling twist) for the M16A2. As older M16A1 1:12 twist barrels were not able to stabilize the longer bullets, the new bullets had to be marked (in countries with older 1:12 rifles) in order to make sure that the new ammo wasn't used in the older rifles. M855 received green painted tips and M856 received orange. M193 is plain and M196 is red.


Take a look at:

Fabrique Nationale (FN)

The Minimi from FN--precursor to the SAW.








The M249 Squad Automatic Weapon (SAW).

Q. So why don't all US military units carry M855?

The original ammo for the M16 was M193, with a 55gr copper-jacketed lead-core bullet. The rifling twist on the first M16s was 1 turn in 14 inches, or 1:14. This twist rate was selected simply because it was the twist rate commonly used in the .222 Remington-chambered varmint rifles that the .223 round was based on. During tests of the M16 in arctic regions, it was found that the slow 1:14 twist wasn't fast enough to stabilize the 55gr bullet in the denser air. To correct this problem, the twist was tightened to 1:12 and all future M16s and M16A1s came with 1:12 barrels.

The M855 round and particularly the M856 tracer round, are very long bullets and require a faster twist rate in order to be stabilized in air. Firing M855 from a 1:12-twist rifle would result in an understabilized bullet that would only fly straight for about 90 yards, then veer off as much as 30° in a random direction. In order to prevent soldiers from accidentally firing M855 in 1:12-twist rifles, M855/SS-109 was given a green-painted bullet tip. This allows M855/SS-109 to be differentiated from plain-tipped M193. M16A2s, A3s, A4s, M4s and M4A1s all have a 1:7 twist and can stabilize both M855 and M193.

 

[ATM]

...FN was developing a new 5.56mm belt-fed machine gun they called the "Minimi"

 

[Jstier]

Just saw 1000rounds 5.56 lake city 62gr in 50cal ammo can for $337 at Sniper Company

 

[Mr. Habib]

M855 is only spec'd to group 5.5MOA. If you are looking for target ammo, you can do MUCH better. If you just want to make loud noises and holes in the backstop, you can do it cheaper. M855 would be well done my list for 5.56 ammo for any purpose.

 

[nipprdog]

AMM-255 - 5.56x45mm Federal Lake City XM193 FMJ 55 Grain 840 Round Ammo Can On 10 Round Stripper Clips 3165 FPS

 

[jeremy]

read on this link - The AR15.com Ammo Oracle

There is ALOT of info there but it gives you a real good jump on what will work best. The short of it is -

Q. Why did the US Military adopt M855 for the M16?

M855 and M856 are newer rounds developed in the late 1970s by Fabrique Nationale (FN) of Belgium. FN was developing a new 5.56mm belt-fed machine gun they called the "Minimi" (Mini-Machinegun) for entry into the US military's Squad Automatic Weapon (SAW) program. The SAW was to augment, and in many cases replace, the 7.62×51mm M60 made by Saco Defense (now part of the General Dynamics Armament Division). Because there was a lot of resistance to giving up larger, longer-range round of the M60, FN focused on making the SAW perform better at longer ranges than existing 5.56 platforms (i.e., the M16). They did this primarily by developing new bullets: the SS-109 "ball" round and the L-110 tracer.

The SS-109 bullet uses a "compound" core, with a lead base topped by a steel penetrator, all covered in a gilding-metal (copper alloy) jacket. The L-110 tracer bullet has a copper-plated steel jacket and like all tracer bullets, is hollowed out at the base and filled with tracing compound. Both bullets are much longer in length than the earlier 55gr bullets, especially the L-110 tracer, which was designed to trace out to 800m, verses 450m for the older M196 tracer round. Due to their increased length, these bullets require a faster rifling twist to be properly stabilized. The military settled on a twist rate of 1:7, which is a compromise between the 1:9 twist ideal for SS-109 bullets and the 1:6 twist ideal for L-110 tracers.

Remember, the goal of these new bullets was improving long range performance. For example, the SS-109 bullet was proven to have better penetration of the then-current-issue steel helmet at 600m than the M80 "ball" ammo fired by the M60. The M80 ammo was not able to penetrate both sides of the helmet at that distance; the SS-109 bullet could. The L-110 tracers provided a visible trace out to 800m, which was seen as the maximum effective range of the SAW. These improvements in long-range performance satisfied the military and the US ultimately adopted the Minimi as the M249 SAW. They also adopted the new FN bullets and the US specs for the loaded rounds are called M855 and M856.

About the time the SAW was adopted, the M16 "A2 revision" program was underway and it was decided to adopt the new SAW ammo (and its rifling twist) for the M16A2. As older M16A1 1:12 twist barrels were not able to stabilize the longer bullets, the new bullets had to be marked (in countries with older 1:12 rifles) in order to make sure that the new ammo wasn't used in the older rifles. M855 received green painted tips and M856 received orange. M193 is plain and M196 is red.


Take a look at:

Fabrique Nationale (FN)

The Minimi from FN--precursor to the SAW.








The M249 Squad Automatic Weapon (SAW).

Q. So why don't all US military units carry M855?

The original ammo for the M16 was M193, with a 55gr copper-jacketed lead-core bullet. The rifling twist on the first M16s was 1 turn in 14 inches, or 1:14. This twist rate was selected simply because it was the twist rate commonly used in the .222 Remington-chambered varmint rifles that the .223 round was based on. During tests of the M16 in arctic regions, it was found that the slow 1:14 twist wasn't fast enough to stabilize the 55gr bullet in the denser air. To correct this problem, the twist was tightened to 1:12 and all future M16s and M16A1s came with 1:12 barrels.

The M855 round and particularly the M856 tracer round, are very long bullets and require a faster twist rate in order to be stabilized in air. Firing M855 from a 1:12-twist rifle would result in an understabilized bullet that would only fly straight for about 90 yards, then veer off as much as 30° in a random direction. In order to prevent soldiers from accidentally firing M855 in 1:12-twist rifles, M855/SS-109 was given a green-painted bullet tip. This allows M855/SS-109 to be differentiated from plain-tipped M193. M16A2s, A3s, A4s, M4s and M4A1s all have a 1:7 twist and can stabilize both M855 and M193.

Which "Guru" wrote that list of BS?!

There is a fair amount of misinformation listed there...

 

[the1kidd03]

Which "Guru" wrote that list of BS?!

There is a fair amount of misinformation listed there...

Late to the party, but AGREED

 

[kwood]

Which "Guru" wrote that list of BS?!

There is a fair amount of misinformation listed there...

please elaborate
i read the article and felt i learned a lot
can you give some counter points to the ones you see issues with?
not trying to stir anything, just looking for information like the OP

 

[Destro]

XM ammo is factory reject ammo, I wouldn't buy any of it in bulk

 

[Nitehunter500]

Cheaper than dirt has this ammo at a good price.

 

[rhino]

i'm getting ready to buy some bulk 5.56 ammo and was wondering besides one being 55gr and the other 62 gr what is the difference between the XM193 and the XM855 lake city ammo and is one better than the other. I'll be shooting this out of a Rock River Arms midlength Lar-15 with 1x9 twist chrome lined barrel.

What is your intended purpose?

If it's for defense, the M193 has better terminal performance at the ranges most of us are likely to encounter, especially here in Indiana. It it more likely to fragment and thus cause a really big wound under 150 m or so.

From the people I know (and trust) who have shot a lot of different barriers, the M855 is more likely to shed its jacket and lose much of its wounding potential when going through sheet metal and other thing materials.

If you're just shootin' for fun, I don't think it makes much difference either way. I'd get whichever is less expensive and functions best in your rifle(s).

 

[jblomenberg16]

Something to keep in mind is that M855 would be the 62gr steel pennetrator. Depending on where you shoot, they may not allow that bullet.

 

[jeremy]

please elaborate
i read the article and felt i learned a lot
can you give some counter points to the ones you see issues with?
not trying to stir anything, just looking for information like the OP

1. The SAW was never intended to as a replacement for the M60, the SAW was purchased to place an Automatic Rifleman back in fire teams and squads. someone somewhere figured out that the M-16s with burst only were no as cool as they thought...
2. The reason the tips are painted green are to denote that the rounds have an Penetrater Core to them.
3.M193 is just a 55 grain Lead Core FMJ round, while , M855 is either steel core or a tungsten and steel core 62 gr FMJ.

I am feeling generous this morning...
• Cartridge, Ball, F1 (Australia): 5.56×45mm FN SS109 equivalent produced by Australian Defence Industries(ADI), now Thales Australia.
• Cartridge, Blank, F3 (Australia): 5.56×45mm Blank cartridge produced by Australian Defence Industries(ADI), now Thales Australia.
• Cartridge, Ball, C77 (Canada): 5.56×45mm FN SS109 equivalent used in the C7, C8 and C9 type weapons.
• Cartridge, Blank, C79 (Canada): 5.56×45mm blank cartridge used in the C7, C8 and C9 type weapons.
• Cartridge, Ball, DM11 (Germany): 5.56×45mm 4.1 g dual core ball cartridge, green tip w/steel core, produced by RUAG Ammotec.
• Cartridge, Tracer, DM21 (Germany): 5.56×45mm tracer compliment to DM11, also produced by RUAG Ammotec.
• Cartridge, Ball, L2A1 (United Kingdom): 5.56×45mm FN SS109 equivalent produced by Radway Green.
• Cartridge, Tracer, L1A1 (United Kingdom): 5.56×45mm tracer compliment to L2A1, also produced by Radway Green.
• Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Ball, M193 (United States): 5.56×45mm 55-grain ball cartridge.
• Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Grenade, M195 (United States): 5.56×45mm grenade launching blank.
• Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Tracer, M196 (United States): 5.56×45mm 54-grain tracer cartridge, red cartridge tip.
• Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Blank, M200 (United States): 5.56×45mm violet-tipped blank cartridge.
• Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Ball, M202 (United States): 5.56×45mm 58-grain FN SSX822 cartridge
• Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Ball, XM287 (United States): 5.56×45mm 68-grain ball cartridge produced by Industries Valcartier, Inc. An Improved version was also produced designated XM779.
• Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Tracer, XM288 (United States): 5.56×45mm 68-grain tracer cartridge produced by Industries Valcartier, Inc. An Improved version was also produced designated XM780.
• Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Grenade, M755 (United States): 5.56×45mm grenade launching blank specifically for the M234 launcher.
• Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Ball, XM777 (United States): 5.56×45mm ball cartridge.
• Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Tracer, XM778 (United States): 5.56×45mm tracer cartridge.
• Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Ball, M855 (United States): 5.56×45mm 62-grain FN SS109 ball cartridge, green tip w/steel penetrator and a lead core.
• Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Ball, M855 Lead Free (United States):62-grain green tip w/tungsten penetrator and a steel core. Primarily used during training in countries with strict lead disposal laws.
• Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Ball, M855A1 (United States):62-grain green tip w/19-grain steel penetrator tip and a solid copper core.
• Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Tracer, M856 (United States): 5.56×45mm 64-grain FN L110 tracer cartridge
• Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Armor Piercing, M995 (United States): 5.56×45mm 52-grain AP cartridge, black cartridge tip.
• Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Tracer, XM996 (United States): 5.56×45mm so-called "Dim Tracer" with reduced effect primarily for use with night vision devices.
• Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Special Ball, Long Range, Mk 262 Mod 0/1 (United States): 5.56×45mm 77-grain Open-Tipped Match/Hollow-Point Boat-Tail cartridge. Mod 0 features Sierra Matchking bullet, while Mod 1 features either Nosler or Sierra bullet.
• Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, MK318 MOD 0 enhanced 5.56 mm ammunition (United States): 5.56×45mm 62-grain Open-Tipped Match Boat-Tail cartridge.
• Cartridge, 5.64 mm, Ball, MLU-26/P (United States): Early USAF designation for 5.56×45mm ball cartridge produced by Remington.

 

[the1kidd03]

additionally, the "x" designator means that it is not built to "mil-spec" however much of it comes from the same factories......the only thing I ever saw getting issued to standard infantry in the last several years was m855.....everything else was more "special purpose" scenarios

 

[jblomenberg16]

additionally, the "x" designator means that it is not built to "mil-spec" however much of it comes from the same factories......the only thing I ever saw getting issued to standard infantry in the last several years was m855.....everything else was more "special purpose" scenarios

http://www.federalpremium.com/resources/xm193.aspx

 

[jeremy]

Federal Premium - XM193

What the kidd was referring to is the fact that XM in Military Nomenclature is used to identify Experimental or Non-Mil Standard Items.

 

[jblomenberg16]

What the kidd was referring to is the fact that XM in Military Nomenclature is used to identify Experimental or Non-Mil Standard Items.

Thanks for the clarification...that makes a lot more sense.

 

[shooter521]

What the kidd was referring to is the fact that XM in Military Nomenclature is used to identify Experimental or Non-Mil Standard Items.

However, Destro seemed to be saying something very different, and completely contradicting the info posted directly on Federal's website.

 

[jeremy]

However, Destro seemed to be saying something very different, and completely contradicting the info posted directly on Federal's website.

I do not know where Destro's belief that XM means Factory Reject. That is the first I have ever heard that one. I would love to find out his source for that pearl of information...