New To Reloading - Lee Die Question

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  • Wabatuckian

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    Hello,

    I had a Lyman press sitting around for about a year, and finally remembered to buy dies for it when a member here posted them for sale.

    The dies I got are Lee .45acp. There are four dies, but the instructions I got from Lee only cover three.

    I have the first three (decapping, flaring, seating) set up to specifications.

    The fourth I cannot find much about. From what I can find on the Web, it's "factory crimp die" or something of the sort.

    Nobody seems to agree as to whether it's needed on the .45acp.

    I am not reloading for anything except practice ammo.

    Do I need this fourth die? If not, I'll put it back up. If I do, does anyone have instructions on how to set it up?

    Thank you,

    Josh <><

    P.S. I have manuals on order, and will not go past the depriming process until I have them in hand and have read them. In fact, I am intentionally holding off on powder so that I'm not tempted to do this! No worries there. Thanks. J.S.
     

    NEOCON

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    It should be a factory crimp die, this puts a factory style crimp on the brass to hold the bullet tighter. Some say it is needed in semi-autos, myself I do not crimp my rounds. But I have heard great things of the Lee factory crimp die, people really seem to like it.
     

    Old Syko

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    The Lee FCD is a great addition to most die sets other than 45 ACP. If you read your load manuals they explain that the 45 ACP headspaces on the case mouth, therefore any amount of actual crimp destroys proper headspacing. Use the crimper cut into the seater die to remove any excess expansion in the case mouth from the expander die but no more than that. This is easily achieved by proper seater die adjustment which makes the use of the FCD an unneeded and unwanted step for this particular caliber.
     

    Leadeye

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    The factory crimp die is a great tool to have if you cast bullets. Oversize bullets that can cause chambering problems are easy to deal with as the FC die resizes the case and the bullet slightly for an easier fit.
     

    Joe Williams

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    The Lee FCD is a great addition to most die sets other than 45 ACP. If you read your load manuals they explain that the 45 ACP headspaces on the case mouth, therefore any amount of actual crimp destroys proper headspacing. Use the crimper cut into the seater die to remove any excess expansion in the case mouth from the expander die but no more than that. This is easily achieved by proper seater die adjustment which makes the use of the FCD an unneeded and unwanted step for this particular caliber.

    All rimless semi-auto handgun rounds headspace on the case mouth.

    The Lee Factory Crimp dies put a taper crimp on semi-auto cartridges. You cannot overcrimp to the point that the round will not malfunction. To quote the instructions: "Automatic pistol calibers, that headspace on on the cartridge mouth, receive a perfect, tapered factory crimp. The crimp is fully adjustable for a very light crimp or heavy crimp. Regardless of how much crimp you apply, it will never make the case mouth too small to headspace against the chamber's end.

    Testing over a chronograph has shown me a better consistency in velocity with crimped ammo, and better accuracy.

    Sure, it's an extra step, but one reason I reload is for higher quality ammo so I don't mind.

    Here are the instructions that came with my factory crimp dies:

    LeeFCDside1.jpg


    LeeFCDside2.jpg
     

    Old Syko

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    Testing over a chronograph has shown me a better consistency in velocity with crimped ammo, and better accuracy.

    Sure, it's an extra step, but one reason I reload is for higher quality ammo so I don't mind.

    If we were talking straightwalled handgun rounds using ball powders I would agree with your graph findings, but for the 45 using most any of the normally accepted powders it just doesn't play out that way.

    The extra step is just another chance to foul up. Proper adjustment of the seater eliminates that extra chance while achieving the same goal.

    The factory crimp die is a great tool to have if you cast bullets. Oversize bullets that can cause chambering problems are easy to deal with as the FC die resizes the case and the bullet slightly for an easier fit.

    Bullet sizing is taken care of in the lubesizer, and not in a crimp die. No crimp die compresses more than just the very outer portion of the case around the mouth.
     

    slow1911s

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    An ideal crimp for most autos will equal casewall thickness (2x) plus diameter of the bullet. You can almost never go wrong there.

    Crimp can have an effect on pressure, and therefore velocity, in some handgun powders. Titegroup is one that immediately comes to mind.
     

    Disposable Heart

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    I would say, in personal experience, that with .45 a Crimp die or crimp/final sizing die that comes with the "deluxe" sets is critical. .45 will set back if you sneeze too hard on it or fart wrong, so any extra measure to prevent this is great. The best are the final sizing dies/crimp. They complete both, but if you dont want crimp (minimal, such as with lead loads) but want to get rid of the flare that you put on the mouth, they rule in this regard.

    From what I noticed, you get more consistent velocity numbers with crimping, even higher velocity in some cases with a heavy crimp, as it gives that extra little bit of time for powder to burn more consistently. .45 lead loads I never crimped, as they sealed just fine and usually got rid of the flare by just seating them.
     

    Slow Hand

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    I know the Lee FCD helped me out with my reloads for auto calibers. I've been loading for about a dozen years and have found that rimless, straightwall calibers are very picky about their crimps. Too much and they will seat too deep in the chamber, possibly causing misfires; too little crimp and you'll have jams. The .45 acp is a fairly forgiving calibers in most respects, but the Lee FCD is a good thing to have and worth the time and effort to use. When using it, you'll want to back out the 3rd die, the seating/crimping die so that it gives you no crimp whatsoever. Adjust teh seating die to the proper OAL, then, run the rounds through the FCD as shown in the instructions posted previously. You should have much mor consistant results and fewer problems with your handloads. I've got the FCD for basically all the calibers I shoot alot of and even some I don't!
    Doug K
     

    Wabatuckian

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    Hi All,

    Quick update:

    I posted on some other bulletin boards as well, looking for info on this fourth die, and setup instructions etc.

    It is indeed a factory crimp die, as has been said, and there's a controversy as to whether they're needed.

    They set up very similarly to the seating/crimping die from what I'm reading here and elsewhere.

    I have some reloads that I inadvertently bought. I went to the gunstore the better part of a year ago, and bought a certain brand of ammo - only to find out that they do not manufacture reloads! The gunstore wouldn't take them back, and so I was stuck with them.

    About half of them would not chamber, and some were too long overall to fit in magazines.

    I had three left that I had kept; I safely disposed of the rest (and not out of a gun barrel! :eek: )

    These three were both 1) too long for the magazine and 2) would not chamber due to case sizing considerations.

    I ran 'em through the factory sizing die, and they chamber just fine now.

    I do not know what powder charge is in these things, so I did not set the bullets back and will not be shooting them. I feel it was a good exercise though, and now I see what the die is meant to do.

    I figure I'll use it if my reloads come out as being unable to chamber, or if I eventually decide to reload for precision. However, I figure it'll sit there doing nothing for the majority of the time if the bullets stay in place with the regular seating die.

    **********

    What number manual is Speer on? I ask because the one I have ordered is #10. Speer's website seems to have the link to their manual disabled, so I had to order from another vendor.

    Since then I've heard references to a #12 manual.

    Will it really make a whole lot of difference if I end up with an older one? Do powders and such change all that much?

    The other one I have on order is a Hogdon's (sp?) that I believe is the most current.

    Thanks again for all your help,

    Josh <><
     

    Wabatuckian

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    P.S. How would you set the bullet seating die to keep it from crimping? Or does it just not crimp period? Thanks again, J.S.
     

    Slow Hand

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    For no crimp on the seat/crimp die, put an empty shell in the caseholder and lower the handle/raise the ram. Screw the die in until it touches the case, then unscrew it a half turn or more. When I'm being lazy and reloading the same weight bullets as factory loads, I"ll put a factory round in the shellholder and raise the ram. Then, screw the seating die down to touch the factory bullet nose. That will give you a realy close seating depth that can be adjusted from there for variences in bullet nose profile.

    Doug K
     
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