LEE Dies Issue

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  • Gluemanz28

    Grandmaster
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    29   0   0
    Mar 4, 2013
    7,430
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    Elkhart County
    I had a set of what I thought was RCBS 45 ACP dies that I got with a Lee Progressive press. After I out grew the press and upgraded to a Dillon XL 650 I sold the Lee but kept the dies.

    Fast forward to a year later to last Saturday night. I switched over the press from 9MM to 45 ACP to feed my new Springfield RO and Glock 41. I was setting up everything and realized that the dies were not RCBS but they seemed like good quality so I move forward with setup.

    I purchased a 45 ACP carbide factory crimp die months ago from a shop in MN for the final stage as I do for all my pistol loads. I was having a buckling issue that I couldn't figure out, so I drove 70 miles to Bass Pro in Portage, IN on Sunday to purchase a new set of LEE Carbide 45 Dies. I checked to make sure that all three dies were indeed 45 and not packaged wrong due to the long drive to return them.

    I get home and removed the used dies from the press and start setting up the New Lee dies that I purchased from Bass Pro. When I got to the bullet seat die it got rough to turn by hand so I removed it only to see that there were two places that had the threads marred or smashed.

    I had not much choice at that time but to repair the threads so that it would be usable. After making the repair to the bullet seat die and getting everything all setup I was still getting buckled cases.

    On Monday I called two different reloading shops that sell components and teach reloading (One in Northern Indiana and one in Indy). I even called Lee Precision and talked to a Tech about the issue with buckling and the damaged threads. The Lee tech and place in Northern Indiana were a let down and not much help. The shop in Indy was a huge help. I wish it wasn't a three hour drive for me to do more business with them than I already do.

    Monday evening I go back to the dungeon (aka the basement) to try to figure out the mystery to bulging cases. I decided to take apart the Carbide Factory Crimp Die to see whats going on. Wha La the issue is plain and simple. The insert under the Aluminum adjusting stem was put in upside down. One side is tapered and the other is NOT. The aluminum stem has already started to get a grove in it from the taper on the sleeve that puts a crimp on the loaded round. I reversed it and loaded about 100 rounds with no Issue.

    So not I am really not happy with Lee Precision by now. I call them today to see what they are going to do to correct the two mistakes. We all make mistakes, but how you take care of the customer says a lot about the company.

    This is now my second talk with a Tech and not only did he not apologize either (the tech on monday never apologized) but he put the blame on dealer where I bought it. He said that somebody at the dealer must have taken it out and put it back in wrong. The dealer was a small shop in MN and I doubt that happened. I also called the shop in Indy to let them know what the issue was and I was told that they have received factory crimp dies with the wrong inserts in them. For instance a 40 might have a 9mm insert.

    The final resolution from Lee was to send me a new aluminum stem. I requested the insert as well because I felt it could have been compromised. He agreed to send both but hedged on the bullet seat die. He said that I would have to send it back to Lee and they would repair if possible. If it was deemed unrepairable then they would replace it.

    I happened to notice their return and warranty policy. They will warranty their products for life but it has limitations. You will have to send in the item and pay 50% of retail plus shipping. When you figure in shipping both ways and 50% Lee's retail (25% higher than dealers) you are higher than the cost of new from a local Lee dealer.

    I would suggest taking apart even new dies to check and make sure they weren't made on Monday or Friday :dunno:
     

    Broom_jm

    Master
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    0   0   0
    Dec 10, 2009
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    Glad you got it sorted out and that Lee is going to fix the dies, but it's clear that QA isn't what it should be. That might be partially due to the huge increase in demand/production for all of the reloading companies. In general, Lee equipment is still a very good value.
     

    Lunati

    Sharpshooter
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    2   0   0
    Dec 28, 2012
    615
    63
    Warsaw
    Lee has great CS and their parts are so cheap it doesn't matter. Never the less that's not the way you want a new product to work but the dies are pretty self explanatory.
     

    Mosineer

    Expert
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    1   0   0
    Jan 1, 2011
    1,081
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    Southern Indiana
    I use a number of different Lee Die sets and have had no issues. I've had no issues with Lee Precision. I had them modify a seating plug for me and it was reasonable and painless. With that being said, there will always be issues somewhere on anything we purchase in this world, no company in the world is 100% perfect. Mistakes will always be made, and no customer service will always be smooth and satisfying. I' m not necessarily taking up for LEE, I'm sure others have had issues with LEE and RCBS, Hornady, etc. I guess my point is, I'm not sure what your point is. Yes there was obviously a mistake made somewhere along the line, but it looks like you got it lined out. Good luck, hope you have no more issues.
     

    Kart29

    Sharpshooter
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    2   0   0
    Jun 10, 2011
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    Sounds to me like someone purchased those dies from Bass Pro, tried them out, buggered them up, decided they didn't work, and then returned them to Bass Pro for a refund and then Bass Pro put them back on the shelf without realizing the product had been jacked up.

    There's no way you can be sure the fault lies with Lee Precision. There's a gazillion things that could have happened to those dies after they left the factory. At least Lee is standing by their product and making sure you get what you paid for one way or another.
     

    Gluemanz28

    Grandmaster
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    29   0   0
    Mar 4, 2013
    7,430
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    Elkhart County
    I use a number of different Lee Die sets and have had no issues. I've had no issues with Lee Precision. I had them modify a seating plug for me and it was reasonable and painless. With that being said, there will always be issues somewhere on anything we purchase in this world, no company in the world is 100% perfect. Mistakes will always be made, and no customer service will always be smooth and satisfying. I' m not necessarily taking up for LEE, I'm sure others have had issues with LEE and RCBS, Hornady, etc. I guess my point is, I'm not sure what your point is. Yes there was obviously a mistake made somewhere along the line, but it looks like you got it lined out. Good luck, hope you have no more issues.

    I thought my point was self explanatory. I know it was long winded but I had a lot to say to hopefully help a fellow INGO'er.

    Maybe this will help.
    1) Customer Service lady was very nice.
    2) Both Tech Support guys were less than helpful, not apologetic nor friendly.
    3) They tried to pass the blame on others.
    4) Their Lifetime Warranty is a Joke. I can buy new cheaper than having them replaced under their warranty program
    5) Take apart the dies and inspect before use (SERparacord got it)

    Lee does make good dies. I have at least nine sets of them, but was surprised how they handled the issue.
    I was also surprised how their warranty works.

    I purchased a like new never used Hornady Case Prep Center from a lady in Noblesville that had a couple parts missing. I called Hornady and told them I was missing parts and wanted to purchase replacements for the CPC and the handheld primer. She said that she would just send them to me under warranty and even sent a free hat for my troubles. Now that was GREAT customer service.

    I have had nothing but great service and support from Dillon as well.

    I am a Regional Sales Manager for a Fortune 200 company. I have to occasionally deal with product issues with our products we sell. I never pass the blame and I ALWAYS apologize for the problems they are experiencing even if it was their own fault. I thank them for the opportunity to correct the issue and for their business.
     

    Gluemanz28

    Grandmaster
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    29   0   0
    Mar 4, 2013
    7,430
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    Elkhart County
    Sounds to me like someone purchased those dies from Bass Pro, tried them out, buggered them up, decided they didn't work, and then returned them to Bass Pro for a refund and then Bass Pro put them back on the shelf without realizing the product had been jacked up.

    There's no way you can be sure the fault lies with Lee Precision. There's a gazillion things that could have happened to those dies after they left the factory. At least Lee is standing by their product and making sure you get what you paid for one way or another.

    I disagree with you. Lee Precision does have responsibility for the issue. They have chosen to partner with Bass Pro and other dealers to distribute their products. As the consumer have the choice to return to place or purchase or return to Lee according to their return policy. I fixed the die myself so that I didn't have to wait two weeks and pay $10 shipping to return the dies or $25 in gas to return them to Bass Pro.

    My frustration is due to the lack of responsibility and not apologizing for the issue regardless of where the actual damage occurred.

    I am the face that my customers see when they have issues with my products that I sell through distribution. I don't blame production, purchasing, shipping, the freight company, my distributors, Sales Reps or anyone else. If I am the one the contact then I help them track down the problem and give then the solution and make sure they are taken care of with new product or a credit. I don't send them on a run-a-round.
     

    357 Terms

    Expert
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    3   0   0
    Jan 28, 2012
    836
    43
    Between SB and FT.W
    I ALWAYS apologize for the problems they are experiencing even if it was their own fault. I thank them for the opportunity to correct the issue

    Not everyone is going to be as, lets say, "understanding" as you claim to be.

    There was a problem with another set of dies before this? (you don't know what kind?) Is it an issue with your procedure?

    You drove how far? you do know you can order things and have them delivered to your front door..right?

    I'm thinking the CS reps assumed you buggered up their product, seems plausible.

    My advice is to take the reloading class.
     

    Gluemanz28

    Grandmaster
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    29   0   0
    Mar 4, 2013
    7,430
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    Elkhart County
    (1) Not everyone is going to be as, lets say, "understanding" as you claim to be.

    (2) There was a problem with another set of dies before this? (you don't know what kind?) Is it an issue with your procedure?

    (3) You drove how far? you do know you can order things and have them delivered to your front door..right?

    (4) I'm thinking the CS reps assumed you buggered up their product, seems plausible.

    (5) My advice is to take the reloading class.


    I will respond in the same order as you posted:


    (1) I am the number one salesman at my company due to my customer relationship building techniques. I'm sorry if you don't under how important customer relations are. I don't hold everyone to the same standards that I live by, but I do have minimum acceptable standards required to maintain my business.


    (2) I explained the two separate issues with the dies in my original post, reread it. I have loaded 20,000 rounds of different calibers without issues and once I fixed the brand new bullet seating and factory crimp dies that were not built and shipped correctly I had no more issues.


    (3) I prefer to buy from local retailers if possible, but once again as I stated in my original post it was on SUNDAY. If I had purchased from my LGS they would have gladly returned them and given me a brand new set and dealt with Lee on the return.


    (4) I would suggest to never use the "A" word. When you assume things you run the risk of putting your foot in your mouth. Which brings me to your last comment.


    (5) I have taken a NRA certified reloading class and have the Certificate to prove it, do you?
     

    flashpuppy

    Sharpshooter
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    8   0   0
    Jul 5, 2013
    475
    28
    NWI, Lowell
    Glad you got it sorted out and that Lee is going to fix the dies, but it's clear that QA isn't what it should be. That might be partially due to the huge increase in demand/production for all of the reloading companies. In general, Lee equipment is still a very good value.

    Moral: Check out your dies before using them just as you would a new firearm.

    These two posts get my vote for the "clear and logical posts" in this thread.

    That's it... :popcorn:
     

    noylj

    Marksman
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    0   0   0
    May 8, 2011
    284
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    Not really criticism but:
    You are supposed to take all dies apart and CLEAN them.
    Are you sure you didn't start by screwing the seating die down too far and the case was hitting the crimping section of the die, thus crushing/crumpling the case?
    The die body needs to be turned up at least 2 full turns up from where it contacts the shell holder (usually, one has a case in the shell holder and the ram all the way up and then screw the die body down until the die body hits the crimp section and then turn the die body up 2 full turns to be sure the crimp zone is totally out of the way).
     

    Cannon

    Marksman
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    6   0   0
    Jan 13, 2009
    233
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    I'd just mark this one down as more experience. The first thing a reloader should do when buying new dies is take them apart and clean them.

    Thanks for sharing and hopefully others will learn from it as well.
     

    MDave

    Marksman
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    8   0   0
    Oct 1, 2009
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    I am a Regional Sales Manager for a Fortune 200 company. I have to occasionally deal with product issues with our products we sell. I never pass the blame and I ALWAYS apologize for the problems they are experiencing even if it was their own fault. I thank them for the opportunity to correct the issue and for their business.


    That is the real deal. For me, I know how to do it (customer service) right it just eats me up inside when someone does it absolutely the wrong way. CS is so subjective these days. It depends on if you get the right person on the right day....

    I also agree with another point you made later in the thread. Lee's name is on the product. They are responsible to you for good customer service and helping you find resolution.
     

    ghitch75

    livin' in the sticks
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    117   0   0
    Dec 21, 2009
    13,501
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    Greene County
    did you call Lee direct or Factory Sales?......i bought a new set of dies and it didn't come with a shell holder..........Lee wanted me to buy it ........called Factory Sales and had the shell holder in 3 days free of charge.......i have 15 sets of Lee dies and that was the only trouble i have had with any of them.......been reloading for over 30 years....


    https://fsreloading.com/
     

    Gluemanz28

    Grandmaster
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    29   0   0
    Mar 4, 2013
    7,430
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    Elkhart County
    did you call Lee direct or Factory Sales?......i bought a new set of dies and it didn't come with a shell holder..........Lee wanted me to buy it ........called Factory Sales and had the shell holder in 3 days free of charge.......i have 15 sets of Lee dies and that was the only trouble i have had with any of them.......been reloading for over 30 years....


    https://fsreloading.com/

    I called Lee direct. Thanks for the tip ghitch to call Factory Sales. Rep coming your way. :rockwoot:
     

    Gluemanz28

    Grandmaster
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    29   0   0
    Mar 4, 2013
    7,430
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    Elkhart County
    Not really criticism but:
    You are supposed to take all dies apart and CLEAN them.
    Are you sure you didn't start by screwing the seating die down too far and the case was hitting the crimping section of the die, thus crushing/crumpling the case?
    The die body needs to be turned up at least 2 full turns up from where it contacts the shell holder (usually, one has a case in the shell holder and the ram all the way up and then screw the die body down until the die body hits the crimp section and then turn the die body up 2 full turns to be sure the crimp zone is totally out of the way).

    You must have missed the part where I said the crimp sleeve section of the Carbide Factory Crimp Die was put in upside down. One end is tapered and the other end is NOT. The taper was facing up and the straight wall section facing down. The taper allows the case to enter the sleeve without catching on the lip that caused the buckling.

    The instructions you are giving are for the bullet seating die. The Carbide Factory Crimp Die gets screwed all the way down until it just touches the shell plate. The only issues I had with the bullet seating die was that the threads that screw into the tool head were boogered up from the factory and causing them to be very hard to turn by hand. They have to turn freely to be able to feel the resistance when adjusting downward and meeting the case.
     
    Last edited:

    RipkinC

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    Jan 14, 2013
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    Indy
    glad everything worked out! give us a ring if you ever need anything, and remember the big brown truck delivers up your way! (just not hazmat from us unfortunately)
     

    Gluemanz28

    Grandmaster
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    29   0   0
    Mar 4, 2013
    7,430
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    Elkhart County
    glad everything worked out! give us a ring if you ever need anything, and remember the big brown truck delivers up your way! (just not hazmat from us unfortunately)

    Thanks Ripkin for your help on this and for the spare parts that Andrew gave me for my Dillon XL650 when I was down there several months back. I haven't made it to the new shop yet but looking forward to it.

    Profire Rocks!!! :rockwoot:
     
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