does 9mm 147grn lead w/ Titegroup exist??!!!

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  • Topher Durden

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    Sep 12, 2011
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    I have not been able to find any reloading data on Hodgdon Reloading Data Center for reloading 9mm 147grn lead using Titegroup. Is this not possible??? Has anybody had success with using Titeground on a heavy 9mm lead? I didn't think this would be hard to find.
     

    riverman67

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    Jan 16, 2009
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    Titegroup will smoke like hell with lead. There is data out there, I don't remember where I found it but a search should turn it up.
    147's with titegroup will probably tumble, they did for me.
    I use unique for my pistol loads. I know it's old and dirty but it works for a lot of stuff.

    147 GR. HDY XTP .

    147 GR. HDY XTP
    Manufacturer Hodgdon
    Powder Titegroup
    Bullet Diameter .355"
    C.O.L. 1.100"
    Starting Load
    Grains 3.2
    Velocity (ft/s) 855
    Pressure 22,500 CUP
    Maximum Load
    Grains 3.6
    Velocity (ft/s) 929
    Pressure 27,500 CUP
     
    Last edited:

    rvb

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    Titegroup will smoke like hell with lead.

    yup.

    There is data out there, I don't remember where I found it but a search should turn it up.
    147's with titegroup will probably tumble, they did for me.
    I use unique for my pistol loads. I know it's old and dirty but it works for a lot of stuff.

    Id bet somewhere in the 2.8-3.3 range would work ok. but I have no direct experience w/ lead 147s, I use jhps w/ 3.4gr.

    tumbling? because it's lead? or because it's heavy? or both? some guns may not like it because of twist (I know the m&ps had trouble w/ 147s for a while). 147s (jhps and fmjs) with titegroup are all I use in several guns, and there is no tumbling.

    Topher D, if you have a source for TG, I'd love to hear it! :)

    -rvb
     

    riverman67

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    I have no trouble with lead 147s tumbling using unique. I had a lot of trouble trying to use titegroup,my theory was that the back of the bullet was melting and not engaging the grooves. It's just a theory but it helped explain the huge cloud of smoke.:):
    The data I inserted above was from the hodgon on line manual.It's for hornady xtp's but it should give you a place to start
     

    rvb

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    I have no trouble with lead 147s tumbling using unique. I had a lot of trouble trying to use titegroup,my theory was that the back of the bullet was melting and not engaging the grooves. It's just a theory but it helped explain the huge cloud of smoke.:):

    ah ok. yea, TG is a fast/hot powder. either melting the back as you say, or blowing by the bullet melting the lube and preventing good rifling contact, either way. thanks for clarifying the issue was specifically w/ the TG/lead combo.

    -rvb
     

    Topher Durden

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    the titegroup i have is what's left from an 8# jug purchased some time ago.

    I did produce some loads with 3.2 and 3.3 grains and experienced tumbling or "key holing". My guess would be to increase the load, which i will try, but I know that isn't always the answer. I created this post because I originally had so much trouble finding start out data to begin with, and the loads i created were sub-par.

    I'm shooting out of a full size 5" barrel 1911 9mm and was surprised to see that I was getting the results that i was.
     

    rvb

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    I did produce some loads with 3.2 and 3.3 grains and experienced tumbling or "key holing". My guess would be to increase the load, which i will try, but I know that isn't always the answer.

    sounds like you and riverman had similar results and maybe that's why there's not much data available......
    i'd try backing off, not increasing... maybe increase oal, too. lower pressure to mimic the slower powders?? I dunno.

    -rvb
     

    riverman67

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    I increased OAL,lowered the charge,increased the charge to the point of stupiity.
    The keyholing got better with the increase in OAL but it didn't completely stop it.
    Playing with the charge didn't seem to do anything.
    Good luck.
    My brother and I saw the same issues with an M@P and an XDM 5.25
     

    Snizz1911

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    It seems like my second job is finding Titegroup.

    Op, I'm not sure if there is a velocity or power factor your looking for, but I've went lighter then the charge you listed in a Glock 34 with a storm lake barrel. I haven't seen much key holing. Your right though not a ton of data, I think I used the data riverman posted and likely suggestions on B Enos and decreased the charge for lead bullets and substantially increased the OAL. This is about the only load I use now.
     

    Snizz1911

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    I miss Titegroup, haven't seen any in months.

    I know, I've tried to secure enough for at least this years competition series but would make me feel a lot better if it was on the shelves more readily. I'm also down to almost no 231 and use it for a ton of loads...well used to at least
     

    noylj

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    If I'm looking for a powder, TiteGroup is the last I look for. If I am shooting lead, which is almost all I shoot, TiteGroup is the last powder I look for. If I am shooting 9x19, 147gn bullets are the last I look for. That being said:
    BulletWeightPowderWeightVelocityNoteP.F.COL
    BBI147TiteGroup2.9878Minor1291.135
    Bayou147TiteGroup3.0892Minor1311.150
    Precision L-RNFP147TiteGroup3.09481391.100
    Bayou147TiteGroup3.2929Minor1371.150
    Clements L-RNFP146TiteGroup3.4930136
    L-RN145TiteGroup3.41000145
    L-RN145TiteGroup3.41001145
    Bayou147TiteGroup3.510431531.150
     

    Snizz1911

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    If I'm looking for a powder, TiteGroup is the last I look for. If I am shooting lead, which is almost all I shoot, TiteGroup is the last powder I look for. If I am shooting 9x19, 147gn bullets are the last I look for. That being said:
    BulletWeightPowderWeightVelocityNoteP.F.COL
    BBI147TiteGroup2.9878Minor1291.135
    Bayou147TiteGroup3.0892Minor1311.150
    Precision L-RNFP147TiteGroup3.09481391.100
    Bayou147TiteGroup3.2929Minor1371.150
    Clements L-RNFP146TiteGroup3.4930136
    L-RN145TiteGroup3.41000145
    L-RN145TiteGroup3.41001145
    Bayou147TiteGroup3.510431531.150

    Interesting. What is the source of that data, is that loads you came up with? The numbers look fairly close to what I've tested. If you substitute "first" where you say "last" and that would be me.
     

    noylj

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    Either loads tested or manual loads.
    If you'll buy all the TiteGroup, I'll promise not to, OK?
     

    Snizz1911

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    Either loads tested or manual loads.
    If you'll buy all the TiteGroup, I'll promise not to, OK?

    Deal. I am still interested in your reasoning though, maybe I'm over looking something.

    I'm not the most seasoned loader in the world but the past couple years I've used this load combo for about 15k rounds a year for USPSA . And that was after pretty extensive testing alongside a half dozen other powders, maybe more. Smokey, yes. Soft and meets power factor, yes. Accurate, good enough.

    On the smoke issue I've began using coated bullets for matches and the regular cast stuff for practice. Night and day difference.
     
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