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  1. #1
    Marksman RabbleRouser's Avatar

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    Liberty Ammo Civil Defense...all hype or worth the money?

    I was at my LGS the other day and one of the guys recommended the "Civil Defense" by Liberty Ammo. Apparently it's a lead free deep cup hollow point that travels 2000 fps and the cup fragments in a 5" "starburst" pattern leaving the bullet base to penetrate 12". Has anyone had any experience with this stuff?
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  2. #2
    Grandmaster Cameramonkey's Avatar

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    Sounds like a variant of the now debunked G2R RIP ammo. That too had bits that came off the main body for additional wound channels but independent ballistics tests pretty much destroyed their claims.

    Save your money. Just more hype.

  3. #3
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    The difference between Liberty and the G2 is the Library is going a LOT faster. The civil defense round is supposed to mimic a 5.56 generally speaking. A light weight bullet going really fast. The RIP ammo used a bullet design to it's (supposedly) advantage.

    I wouldn't count out the Civil Defense round.


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  4. #4
    Plinker

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    From the ballistics tests that I've seen the liberty ammo is pretty impressive.. Especially when it comes to defeating body armor, it easily passes through a level IIIA soft plate out of both a 4 and 7.5 in barrel, I believe the ballistics test was done on the Military Arms Channel on youtube. Out of a carbine length firearm I believe their 9mm is touching on 2500 fps. Which while 9mm and 5.56 have dramatically different sectional densities, the bullet weight and velocity are similar out of the same length barrel, approximately 7.5 inches. The liberty ammunition has a place, I'm just not sure what place that is.

  5. #5
    Master calcot7's Avatar

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    Didn't you mean liberry........wait.....hmmmm

  6. #6
    M67
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    Grandmaster M67's Avatar

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    I've shot the 380, 9mm, and 223 Civil Defense, point of impact was very consistent and the casings piled in a very tight pile. A friend has tried the 45acp and it shot great for him.

    Overall, I'd trust the ammo

  7. #7
    Grandmaster Tactically Fat's Avatar

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    In a handgun, you want your bullet to remain together.

    Shedding five pieces to let an even lighter "bullet" base to "penetrate" 12" is - sub par.

    If these things worked, don't you think that law enforcement agencies would be all over them? Especially Federal law enforcement and their "unlimited" budgets? There's good reason that law enforcement agencies don't utilize ammunition such as this.
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  8. #8
    Grandmaster BehindBlueI's's Avatar

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    I'll pass. I'm not Beta testing the latest greatest gimmick ammo with my butt on the line. I'm not interested in anything designed to burst apart in a shallow area of the body and essentially leave ball ammo to try and get to the points that matter.

    In a very small sample size, I have not been impressed with these super high speed pistol bullets. They make messy but shallow wounds, have trouble breaking bone, and seem unreliable compared to quality bonded HP designs.
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  9. #9
    M67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tactically Fat View Post
    If these things worked, don't you think that law enforcement agencies would be all over them? Especially Federal law enforcement and their "unlimited" budgets? There's good reason that law enforcement agencies don't utilize ammunition such as this.
    Someone who worked for Civil Defense told me that Pennsylvania highway patrol switched to their ammo because the weight of a loaded magazine was so much less and it penetrated well, and that they were making/designing ammo for the government for the past 10 years or so doing rifle munitions.

    That's just what he said though, can't find any articles proving or disproving it

    This is about the only thing I can find that shows Liberty and the gov had any dealings

    Liberty Ammunition wins $15.6M in patent theft case against Defense Department - Washington Times

  10. #10
    Expert ajeandy's Avatar

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    Well..I just watched this stuff tear right through L3 body armor...I'm not fond of the petals breaking off, but that's a ton of energy transfer out of a light bullet.

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