Question about consistent experience with various progressive presses

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  • EvilElmo

    Expert
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    8   0   0
    Feb 11, 2009
    1,235
    48
    Dearborn Co.
    Hello All,
    I'm hoping the good citizens of INGO can help me with a decision. I currently reload a few handgun calibers and one rifle caliber on a Lee LoadMaster. The press has been good to me overall but it suffers from a problem that I like to call "inconsistent experience". By that I mean that when I start pulling the handle one of two things is going to happen:
    1. I'm going to spend about an hour loading.
    2. I'm going to spend about an hour trying to figure out why I'm NOT loading.

    The LoadMaster, or mine at least, suffers from this problem where even though I haven't touched anything about it since the last successful reloading session when I start up again I seem to have about a 50/50 chance that something will go wrong, hence my "inconsistent experience". And it doesn't ever seem to be the same problem twice. When everything works it's great, but I never know when I start pulling the handle whether it's going to work or not. The most recent example was last week. I loaded about 150 rounds of 45 without a single problem. Everything worked flawlessly. Two days later, after having literally not touched the press other than adding cases to the feeder (primers/powder were still stocked because I knew I'd be coming back soon), I managed to turn out one completed round, 4 without primers, and one case with the mouth crushed so badly it's now garbage (after which I walked away in disgust). Something didn't line up properly and crushed that case, and I know I have to take the primer arm apart and clean that out to get them flowing properly again even though it's only been 150 rounds since I cleaned it the last time. And yes it is the newest version of Lee's large primer arm.

    This is where INGO comes in. I've reached the point where I'm ready to upgrade, and if you can't tell from my little story here what I'm most interested in is knowing that when I pull the handle it's going to work. I'm sick of setting time aside to load some rounds only to have what should be an enjoyable afternoon turned into an exercise in frustration trying to figure why some part of the system isn't working today. So please enlighten me - which progressive press will be the most consistently reliable machine I can get? I like the look of the new RCBS 7-station press because who doesn't want 7 stations, but it's so new there's not much information about it yet. I guess the others in the running would be the 650 and LNL. So please tell me Blue/Green/Red owners - do you have problems like mine with your presses?
     

    SSGSAD

    Grandmaster
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    14   0   0
    Dec 22, 2009
    12,404
    48
    Town of 900 miles
    My brother has a Lee Pro 1000, when it works, it is great, when it doesn't, he can fix it .....

    It doesn't take an hour .....

    I also agree with rvb .....
     

    bulletsmith

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    11   0   0
    Apr 26, 2015
    2,050
    48
    Lake County
    Hello All,
    I'm hoping the good citizens of INGO can help me with a decision. I currently reload a few handgun calibers and one rifle caliber on a Lee LoadMaster. The press has been good to me overall but it suffers from a problem that I like to call "inconsistent experience". By that I mean that when I start pulling the handle one of two things is going to happen:
    1. I'm going to spend about an hour loading.
    2. I'm going to spend about an hour trying to figure out why I'm NOT loading.

    The LoadMaster, or mine at least, suffers from this problem where even though I haven't touched anything about it since the last successful reloading session when I start up again I seem to have about a 50/50 chance that something will go wrong, hence my "inconsistent experience". And it doesn't ever seem to be the same problem twice. When everything works it's great, but I never know when I start pulling the handle whether it's going to work or not. The most recent example was last week. I loaded about 150 rounds of 45 without a single problem. Everything worked flawlessly. Two days later, after having literally not touched the press other than adding cases to the feeder (primers/powder were still stocked because I knew I'd be coming back soon), I managed to turn out one completed round, 4 without primers, and one case with the mouth crushed so badly it's now garbage (after which I walked away in disgust). Something didn't line up properly and crushed that case, and I know I have to take the primer arm apart and clean that out to get them flowing properly again even though it's only been 150 rounds since I cleaned it the last time. And yes it is the newest version of Lee's large primer arm.

    This is where INGO comes in. I've reached the point where I'm ready to upgrade, and if you can't tell from my little story here what I'm most interested in is knowing that when I pull the handle it's going to work. I'm sick of setting time aside to load some rounds only to have what should be an enjoyable afternoon turned into an exercise in frustration trying to figure why some part of the system isn't working today. So please enlighten me - which progressive press will be the most consistently reliable machine I can get? I like the look of the new RCBS 7-station press because who doesn't want 7 stations, but it's so new there's not much information about it yet. I guess the others in the running would be the 650 and LNL. So please tell me Blue/Green/Red owners - do you have problems like mine with your presses?

    You have just described my experience with my Lee Loadmaster. There are no words of comfort I can provide. Nothing I can add to the contrary. I can tell you that every time I start looking at the blue press, my little voice says that it doesn't really cost that much to keep the lee going.

    I appreciate Lee's price point. They got me started. The truth is that their stuff is just not engineered to the level something like a Dillon is. I know people who can actually walk up to their blue press, fill the hoppers, and go. They don't have to do any sacrifice to the reloading gods or anything.
     

    17 squirrel

    Shooter
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    May 15, 2013
    4,427
    63
    Dillon.

    confirm powder charge, start making ammo. every time, 10+ years, ~150k rounds.

    -rvb

    A Dillon 550... Don't get talked into a 650.. A 550 is super user friendly, conversions are reasonably priced and easy to change.
    I own a 450_ 550 and a 650, if I had to pick one to keep it would be the 550.
     

    DustyDawg48

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    10   0   0
    May 11, 2010
    3,935
    38
    Mount Vernon
    I had a Pro 1000 and feel your pain. I don't think I managed a usable or trustable round in the short amount of time I had it. I then opted for an RCBS Rock Chucker Supreme which was a fantastic press, but still single-stage.

    I opted for the Hornady LNL progressive after looking at both the Dillon and the Hornady. Both are fantastic, both have incredible warranties and incredible customer service. I have had no problem with the LNL that I didn't cause myself and even then Hornady replaced parts that I broke due to a stuck primer slide.
     

    rvb

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Jan 14, 2009
    6,396
    63
    IN (a refugee from MD)
    A Dillon 550... Don't get talked into a 650.. A 550 is super user friendly, conversions are reasonably priced and easy to change.
    I own a 450_ 550 and a 650, if I had to pick one to keep it would be the 550.

    that comes down to volume, imo. my experience above was all on my 550. but the answer to the question asked doesn't really change for any Dillon model. they'll work when you want them to. I know lots of guys who load their ammo on dillons the night or morning before a match. that's confidence in the equipment.

    -rvb
     
    Last edited:

    17 squirrel

    Shooter
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    3   0   0
    May 15, 2013
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    that comes down to volume, imo. my experience above was all on my 550. but the answer to the question asked doesn't really change for any Dillon model. they'll work when you want them to. I know lots of guys who load their ammo the night or morning before a match. that's confidence in the equipment.

    -rvb

    I agree to a point, but unless you shoot well in excess of 2-3 thou a month, spending twice as much is a waste of money..
    Also something that the guys that lust for the 650 is you are severely hampered with what rifle cartridge's you can load with the 650.
    The 650 was designed for the high volume pistol shooter.
    I love all of my Dillon products, I'm a Blue Koolaid drinker.
    OP, your problems are very typical of progressive press Lee owners, those that like to constantly adj and tinker with their presses love the Lee.
    Some Lee owners say they never have any issues.Those that don't like the constant stoppages either get fed up with reloading and give it up or buy a higher quality press.

    I would suggest that you read up on Dillon machines on Dillons and Brian Enos websites and forums...
     

    rvb

    Grandmaster
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    4   0   0
    Jan 14, 2009
    6,396
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    IN (a refugee from MD)
    I agree to a point, but unless you shoot well in excess of 2-3 thou a month, spending twice as much is a waste of money..

    I now load 5-8k/yr, and the 550 is perfect.
    I used to load 20-25k/yr (~2k/mo) and the 550 was a lot of work and I really was wishing I had the faster press. but I made it work. I couldn't imagine 3k/mo on a 550.

    The tip-over point is going to be different for everyone, but 1-1.5k/mo (12-18k/yr) is probably more realistic point where you're going to end up with a 650 any way.

    In an ideal world.... a 650 for small primer (9mm/.38super/.40/223) and a 550 for large (.45/308, which I don't shoot as much). :spend:

    -rvb
     

    17 squirrel

    Shooter
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    3   0   0
    May 15, 2013
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    I now load 5-8k/yr, and the 550 is perfect.
    I used to load 20-25k/yr (~2k/mo) and the 550 was a lot of work and I really was wishing I had the faster press. but I made it work. I couldn't imagine 3k/mo on a 550.

    The tip-over point is going to be different for everyone, but 1-1.5k/mo (12-18k/yr) is probably more realistic point where you're going to end up with a 650 any way.

    In an ideal world.... a 650 for small primer (9mm/.38super/.40/223) and a 550 for large (.45/308, which I don't shoot as much). :spend:

    -rvb

    That's a great post,
    I tend to use my 650 for 9mm, 223 and 40. ( loading 9mm 5 to 10 thou at each setup ) ( 5.56 5 to 10 thou each setup ) and 40 every couple of years.
    More or less what you are saying.. But I will change the primer feeder over if I need to run off a few hundred 380's or 9x18 ultra or some other non high volume round we shoot.
    My son loads and shoots vintage ww2 rifles, 7mm, 8mm 54R and a few others and he uses the Rockchucker for the few hundred of each of those he shoots each year.
     

    ryknoll3

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    Sep 7, 2009
    2,719
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    I have a Hornady LNL progressive and I've been really happy with it. I haven't had any issues that weren't user error (forgot to prime a case, charged it with powder and then it made a mess as it went around and caused a primer feed issue). I have the case feeder and I've been really happy with that as well. In some ways the Dillon 650 looks like there's a little less tweaking on setup, but I couldn't justify the double cost, and once I dialed in a few things on my Hornady, it runs like butter. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to someone.
     

    87iroc

    Master
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    4   0   0
    Dec 25, 2012
    3,437
    48
    Bartholomew County
    What issues...rough examples, have you had?

    My largest issues, probably, is if I don't complete the 'stroke' sometimes the indexing arm gets hung up. I seldom walk way without the arm up though. If I do 'short stroke' the arm its because a case has hung up and I didn't 'flip' it out of the way in time. I am only about 2 weeks in to Loadmaster ownership though and am pretty mechanically inclined so tinkering if something doesn't work quite right is normal for me. I'm 270 rounds in today loading and have had 2 issues(2 bad rounds total) other than the 5 I loaded when I ran out of primers.
     

    BGDave

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    206   0   0
    Sep 15, 2011
    2,659
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    Beech Grove
    OP, you're gonna hear Dillon a lot. There is a reason, they just work.

    I feel your pain on the Gremlins. I started progressive loading with a RCBS Piggyback 2. Lots of hang-ups.
     

    chezuki

    Human
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    48   0   0
    Mar 18, 2009
    34,151
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    Behind Bars
    I can't believe nobody's mentioned Dillon yet...:dunno:

    OP, I feel your pain. I loaded a total of about 20k rounds of 9mm on my Lee Pro 1000 before pulling the trigger on my 650. When the Lee was in the groove it seemed great, but I couldn't get past the fact that I could load 500rds seemingly flawlessly, then not touch the press for a couple weeks and have everything wonky when I start up again.

    Whenever I stop on the 650, I set a bullet on the charged case in station 4. When I'm ready to load again, I just pull the handle and go. I spot check the first few powder drops and OAL's, but it never wavers.
     

    dieselrealtor

    Master
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    177   0   0
    Nov 5, 2010
    3,271
    77
    Morgan County
    For me the only choice is WHICH Dillon.

    Currently I have a 550, I am looking to add a 650 or 1050 in the near future for the calibers I shoot in higher volume.

    I started with a Lee classic turret
     

    Steelworker

    Marksman
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    2   0   0
    Aug 14, 2010
    166
    18
    Allen County
    I bought a dillon 650 with the case feeder back in August or Sept of this year. Bought it new from Grafs set in 9mm. I have since added many caliber conversions and extras for it. I have probably loaded 3k in various calibers. In that time, I have had 2 bad rounds. Both were 44 mags that had the Primer turned upside down. Thats a pretty good ratio.

    The 650 is a great machine and trouble free. If you decide on dillon, you wont regret it. You'll only wonder why you waited so long to do it.
     

    turnerdye1

    Master
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    60   0   0
    Dec 26, 2010
    2,090
    63
    North Central IN
    I'm gonna sorta thread jack this but for you 550B owners... How do you guys reload 223? I'm going to be reloading both 9mm and 223. And I'll only be loading 5k of each a year and thats why I'm going to go 550B instead of the 650. I plan on buying an extra tool head, powder die, powder measure, and the conversion kit to make transitioning easier. And I know I'm going to run 9mm with the typical 4 die setup. My question just comes with the 223. I have an idea of how I "want" to run 223 but I want to see if its a crazy idea or not.

    First off let me say I take case prep seriously and go over every step.

    First I would clean the case in a vibratory tumbler.
    Then lube and deprime/size the case on a single stage.
    Then clean/delube the case in a vibratory tumbler.
    I use a WTF trimmer so I run all my brass into it to make sure not a single one gets by that is too long.
    I then use a Lyman case prep center to cut out military crimps and deburr the case neck.
    * Would it be worth it to get the Dillon Super Swage or just keep cutting them out with the case prep center. *
    I then hand prime my brass to ensure proper fit.
    And finally my brass would get to the press.
    First stage powder dispenser.... No need to prime.
    Second stage powder check station using the RCBS die.
    Third stage bullet seat
    Fourth stage bullet crimp.

    Thats how I have this set up in my head anyways... Am i crazy?

    I'm currently running a Lee Turret and I can stand it anymore. Now that my wife shoots both 9mm and 223 its not fast enough anymore.
     

    17 squirrel

    Shooter
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    3   0   0
    May 15, 2013
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    For primer pockets, the Dillon swege is as good and easy as it gets.
    I would trash seating primers for 223 by hand and just use you 550 like it was designed.
    It's not often I would run my 550 with 223 but when I do I use brass that has already been prepped, sized,trimmed, sweged,beveled and dry tumbled.
    I have a empty first station, powder drop second, seat third and Crimp if used on the fourth station.

    Also I have never seen someone use a Dillon powder drop on the first station,
    I guess you could use a measure not mounted on the press but that again is defeating the whole premise of using a Dillon machine.

    I just don't understand some of your processes you are thinking of using..
    Have you sat in front of a Dillon Machine before ??
     

    turnerdye1

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    Dec 26, 2010
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    North Central IN
    I have not. I have ran into a crap load of military crimp pockets before and it drives me nuts. Although it would make sense to go ahead and prime on the 550 since I check them all during case prep anyways... Well i try to catch them.
     

    rvb

    Grandmaster
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    4   0   0
    Jan 14, 2009
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    IN (a refugee from MD)
    I'm gonna sorta thread jack this but for you 550B owners... How do you guys reload 223?

    https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/ammunition-reloading/404107-lubing-cases.html

    I use two toolheads on my 550 for rifle.

    first sizes in station 1 and trims in 3 (I can just take the motor off the die for the trimmer if I don't want to bother trimming).

    I spray the inside of a 1qt ziplog bag w/ about 4 good squirts, toss in 50-100 cases, roll it around, and start sizing. If I want I can then do other messy steps like chamfer/debur. I then toss it in the tumber w/ some old media to get the lube and brass shavings off.

    second tool head I load just like pistol w/ no lube.

    I do use a second sizer on the second tool head that's just not set all the way down... decap pin pushes media out of the flash hole and expander ball sets neck size on inside vs the trim die (last step on 1st toolhead) which sizes the neck on the outside. I found that gave me a little better accuracy, I believe from a little more consistent neck tension vs just having a universal decapper in station 1.

    -rvb
     
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