low-recoil .38 special defense load - looking for recipe

[LP1]

A friend (who doesn't reload) is trying to find a low-recoil .38 special defensive load that his wife will be willing to shoot. He has tried various types of defense rounds that are marketed as low-recoil, but none of them have been appreciatively different than regular loads. My reloading experience is limited to target ammo only.

Does anyone have a recipe for a defensive load that is soft-shooting but still accurate? Any information would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[Leo]

Not exactly what you asked for, but I have heard people that are expert witnesses for firearms cases as well as the training for the State of Texas CHL recommend against home brew defense rounds. It is not about the quality, but it is about liabilities. I have never been to court to prove one way or the other. I do carry factory ammo to this day in whatever I am carrying.

When I carried a featherlite .38 snub nose, I found that the 110 grain Federal defensive rounds and the 125 grain Remington defensive rounds were accurate and easy on the recoil. Factory produced defensive rounds are more money, but it is not like you shoot multiple boxes a month of the stuff. If you do, you need to move to a safer neighborhood!

I have hand loaded .38spl ammo that was REALLY gentle on the recoil, but it also had no power. After going through the paper target, they didn't even bury themselves all the way into the dirt berm. Probably no more effective against a bad guy than a fire cracker. There is a point of too much compromise.

 

[mac45]

Speer makes a hollow point specificly for short barrels. I have no experience with them, but they're supposed to expand reliably at lower velocities.
They also sell them loaded, but it's a +P round, and that may be too warm for your friends wife.

Out of curiosity, what's she shooting them in?
In .38 Spcl, that can make a bigger difference in percived recoil than the actual load.

 

[Leadeye]

At close range the regular target wad cutters should work well.

 

[SSE]

Way back in the olden days when I was younger we would load the hollow base wadcutter backwards and it was AWESOME !
I think better than most loads even today.
Any target load for the 148 will work but just load the bullet backwards

 

[Gluemanz28]

I haven't shot the Hornady Women's loads but from what I have read they have lower recoil and good penetration. If your friend doesn't load then who is going to load them for him and take on the liability?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Any wadcutter running 700-800 fps is about as light recoil and still be effective. If that's too much, time to look at a .32. Not ideal, but "can shoot" outweighs ideal.

 

[LP1]

Thanks for the replies - keep 'em coming. I'll try to address the various points...

He has an LCR. I've reminded him that a heavier gun would help, but it would be, well, heavier.

The wadcutter ideas are intriguing.

Re the liability, I don't really think that's much of an issue since a) the loads would be less powerful than factory, b) I'm not doing this for a profit, and c) if a good recipe is found, he'll be getting into reloading. I've heard rumors about liability issues re handloaded ammo, but I've never seen a reliable story about it actually happening. (But I know - lawyers.)

I think he has tried the Hornady women's ammo (along with several others), but I'll pass that along to him. I've shot some of the stuff he's tried, and haven't noticed much difference vs. regular ammo.

He is thinking about a .32, and that might be where he ends up. Or, she might end up with a .22 or .22mag revolver, under the category of "something is better than nothing".

 

[sloughfoot]

Kind of a sad conversation since if she ever has to use it for real, she won't notice recoil or noise. A 357 magnum would not bother her.

For practice, she should be shooting target loads and learning to manage recoil. Load some real stuff for regular carry.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Well, I just posted this a few days ago with 3 recipes and chrono results from a 2" barrel: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/ammunition-reloading/413977-38-special-wadcutter-loads.html

3.9 gr of CFE is knocking around 700 fps with a 2" barrel and a 148 gr wadcutter. I think I'd look for plated or coated for defensive use due to the smoke with lead, but the CFE wasn't horrendously smoky.

Rimfire revolvers tend to have butt triggers. The SP101 cleans up ok with a spring kit and light polish, and is still as reliable as any rimfire revolver. While I have no personal experience with it, a friend of mine recently got a .327 Federal Magnum SP101 for his elderly father. There's a lot of .32 ammo that it's compatible with so you can probably find factory loads she can use. The heavier SP101 will soak up recoil, and make sure to get some grips that are soft and fit her hand.

I would avoid any low recoil expandable bullet. There is no bullet from a 2" barrel that is both going to adequately penetrate and reliably expand.

 

[ScouT6a]

I always chuckle to myself a little bit every time the "no reloads for self defense" argument comes around.
I have heard this urban legend for 35 years.
In that time, I have yet to read a court case, involving a LEGAL self defense shooting, where this was an issue.
Not one.
Well, Masaad Ayoob said........
He restated his concerns with reloads. Was more of a concern about replicating ballistics.
As long as you can show you used published reloading data and these were your components, too easy to replicate. We do it every day as reloaders, right?
No question any competent lab could duplicate my reloads and check them against others in the pistol magazines.

 

[mssmith44]

How about the reliablilty factor of factory defense ammo?
How many reloaders use a primer sealant or bullet sealant?

Moisture can really reek havoc. I had some plated bullets allow moisture to ruin the loads.
Lead bullets have a sealant built in with the lube.

Also for the best reliability with revolvers, Federal primers are necessary.

 

[mac45]

So is there a physical issue like arthritis, or previous injury?
Or, (more common), is this a case of someone sticking a light weight snubbie in a new shooters hands and being surprised they have problems w/ recoil?

If it's physical, BBI has the right of it. Start looking at .32's. A non polymer frame .380 might be another option IF she can operate the slide.
My wife has tendonitis, hates the Bodyguard, loves the P238.

If she's just a new shooter, start her on something easier.

 

[ScouT6a]

Mssmith44,

Markron Custom Bullet and Primer Sealer. Sold at Midway.

Function: Seal primers, bullet case joints, seal black powder nipples on rifles against moisture
Notes: Does not affect muzzle pressure, velocity or accuracy and will keep moisture out up to 30 days of complete water submersion

 

[mssmith44]

Mssmith44,

Markron Custom Bullet and Primer Sealer. Sold at Midway.

Function: Seal primers, bullet case joints, seal black powder nipples on rifles against moisture
Notes: Does not affect muzzle pressure, velocity or accuracy and will keep moisture out up to 30 days of complete water submersion

Sounds like great sealer. I need some.
I used a similar product many years ago from Herters.
How many reloaders use something like this?

 

[kludge]

Another vote for wadcutter target loads.

My wife shoots 125gr LSWC over a mid/low load of No.2 or Bullseye.

If possible, practice and work up to a 158gr LSWC.

 

[kludge]

I always chuckle to myself a little bit every time the "no reloads for self defense" argument comes around.
I have heard this urban legend for 35 years.
In that time, I have yet to read a court case, involving a LEGAL self defense shooting, where this was an issue.
Not one.
Well, Masaad Ayoob said........
He restated his concerns with reloads. Was more of a concern about replicating ballistics.
As long as you can show you used published reloading data and these were your components, too easy to replicate. We do it every day as reloaders, right?
No question any competent lab could duplicate my reloads and check them against others in the pistol magazines.

The issue is traceability. I can write anything I want to in my log book. How do I convnce a jury it was that load versus another load I have in my log book? Maybe I shot the guy with a cat fart load but maybe it was the .38/44 load. After firing the round the evidence is gone.

 

[LP1]

Kind of a sad conversation since if she ever has to use it for real, she won't notice recoil or noise. A 357 magnum would not bother her.

For practice, she should be shooting target loads and learning to manage recoil. Load some real stuff for regular carry.

So is there a physical issue like arthritis, or previous injury?
Or, (more common), is this a case of someone sticking a light weight snubbie in a new shooters hands and being surprised they have problems w/ recoil?

If it's physical, BBI has the right of it. Start looking at .32's. A non polymer frame .380 might be another option IF she can operate the slide.
My wife has tendonitis, hates the Bodyguard, loves the P238.

If she's just a new shooter, start her on something easier.

Unfortunately, he's already been through most of this with her. Started her with a .22 revolver, but tried to get her to move up. No physical issues - she wants what she wants regardless of whether or not it exists, and doesn't want to practice a lot. And he's trying to accommodate her.

 

[SSGSAD]

.38 spl., 148 gr wadcutter, with 2.8 gr. of Bullseye, load the bullet, front, or back, won't matter at those velocities .....

4.6 gr of Unique, bullet backwards, MIGHT make a different ..... when you approach 900-1000 fps, that is when you will see a difference ....

I did LOTS of experiminting, with this, 30 or 40 years ago .....

JMHO, .22 double action revolver, or .327 mag., can use 5 different rounds IIRC .....

 

[stickbow]

38 cal. wad cutters were used by many police officers in the days before auto pistols came about. It was a common round for self defense. I believe I saw on a video by Massad Ayoob, where he also stated that is was a good round for a .38.

I don;t know anything about the velocities for a Rugar LCR 9mm but, it might warrant some investigation as a possible option. Lighter weight round with higher velocity, may help with recoil.

A Rugar LCR is a light weight hand gun. It's going to have some recoil. You might mention to your friend to get with some instructors and have them help his wife manage the recoil.