Questions on Loading Rifle Ammunition

[Doublehelix]

I am going to be starting on loading some 9mm pistol rounds, but at the same time I am reading up and studying on rifle round loading as well, and I have a few questions. I will be loading .223 rounds in the next month or two, so these questions are directed towards that caliber. I have a Lee Classic Turret press.

1) Case lubing: Since the cases need to be lubed, and then the lube eventually removed, how and when in the process do you remove the lube? I have read several articles by folks that seem to do things one step at a time (batch mode) rather than sequentially, so they clean, then lube, then resize/deprime, then clean the lube off again before resuming the process. This seems counter-intuitive for those folks using a progressive or a turret press. Yet I have seen a lot of YouTube videos of guys that seem to run through the entire process on their presses without stopping to clean off the lube. Are they doing the cleaning after they cartridges are completed? How?

2) Neck Cleaning: Is this necessary? How are you doing it? I have seen some people swear by this, and other that never seem to do it. Nylon brush?

3) Neck Lubing: Is this necessary? How are you doing it? What type of lube?

4) Crimping: Is this necessary? How are you doing it? I have read a lot of back and forth here, and I am confused as heck! I have the Lee Factory Crimp Die which I planned on using, but now I have read so much back-and-forth on whether to crimp .223 rounds that I am a bit confused. I know a lot of those discussions focus on roll crimps, so maybe with the Lee Factory crimp I should just go ahead, but thought I would ask here. Do I need to have bullets with cannelures when using the Lee Factory Crimp?

Thanks, and sorry for all the newbie questions.

 

[rvb]

1) Case lubing: Since the cases need to be lubed, and then the lube eventually removed, how and when in the process do you remove the lube? I have read several articles by folks that seem to do things one step at a time (batch mode) rather than sequentially, so they clean, then lube, then resize/deprime, then clean the lube off again before resuming the process. This seems counter-intuitive for those folks using a progressive or a turret press. Yet I have seen a lot of YouTube videos of guys that seem to run through the entire process on their presses without stopping to clean off the lube. Are they doing the cleaning after they cartridges are completed? How?

On my progressive (Dillon 550), I use two toolheads.

I first tumble clean the brass, lube, then size/deprime on the first toolhead. To lube I use a 1gal ziplock bag, squirt in some lube (I use the Dillon), add a couple handfuls of brass and shake. I then clean the lube off in the tumbler.

Then back in the press with the second toolhead to prime, dump powder and seat the bullet.

I tried once just lubing and going through the whole processes, then tumbling the lube off the finished rounds. It worked, and the ammo was fine, but it was messy... all the crap that comes out when you deprime stuck to the cases and ended up everywhere in all the dies, powder stuck to the bullet necks and lube ended up on the funnel causing powder to stick. not worth it (and I do everything I can to reduce the number of steps...).

I do it in batches... I just finished sizing about 1500 pieces, they're ready to start going through the second toolhead.

If I were using a turret, Id do the same, sizing/depriming all the brass, then clean lube, then back through for the rest of the dies.

Other lubes aren't as messy, like those pads you roll the brass on, but I don't want to handle every piece...

2) Neck Cleaning: Is this necessary? How are you doing it? I have seen some people swear by this, and other that never seem to do it. Nylon brush?

never done it

3) Neck Lubing: Is this necessary? How are you doing it? What type of lube?

never done it, isn't this the same as case lubing? or are you talking inside the neck?

4) Crimping: Is this necessary? How are you doing it? I have read a lot of back and forth here, and I am confused as heck! I have the Lee Factory Crimp Die which I planned on using, but now I have read so much back-and-forth on whether to crimp .223 rounds that I am a bit confused. I know a lot of those discussions focus on roll crimps, so maybe with the Lee Factory crimp I should just go ahead, but thought I would ask here. Do I need to have bullets with cannelures when using the Lee Factory Crimp?

I don't crimp .223. I have the die and experimented with it some. Got a little better groups w/o so just backed off the die and don't crimp. some folks do. up to you.

-rvb

 

[42769vette]

I am going to be starting on loading some 9mm pistol rounds, but at the same time I am reading up and studying on rifle round loading as well, and I have a few questions. I will be loading .223 rounds in the next month or two, so these questions are directed towards that caliber. I have a Lee Classic Turret press.

1) Case lubing: Since the cases need to be lubed, and then the lube eventually removed, how and when in the process do you remove the lube? I have read several articles by folks that seem to do things one step at a time (batch mode) rather than sequentially, so they clean, then lube, then resize/deprime, then clean the lube off again before resuming the process. This seems counter-intuitive for those folks using a progressive or a turret press. Yet I have seen a lot of YouTube videos of guys that seem to run through the entire process on their presses without stopping to clean off the lube. Are they doing the cleaning after they cartridges are completed? How?

2) Neck Cleaning: Is this necessary? How are you doing it? I have seen some people swear by this, and other that never seem to do it. Nylon brush?

3) Neck Lubing: Is this necessary? How are you doing it? What type of lube?

4) Crimping: Is this necessary? How are you doing it? I have read a lot of back and forth here, and I am confused as heck! I have the Lee Factory Crimp Die which I planned on using, but now I have read so much back-and-forth on whether to crimp .223 rounds that I am a bit confused. I know a lot of those discussions focus on roll crimps, so maybe with the Lee Factory crimp I should just go ahead, but thought I would ask here. Do I need to have bullets with cannelures when using the Lee Factory Crimp?

Thanks, and sorry for all the newbie questions.

1) I dont remove lube.

2) I do clean the inside of the case neck. I use this https://www.amazon.com/Lyman-Case-Prep-Xpress-115-Volt/dp/B004TABTWU

3) Im not sure what you mean by "neck lubing". The neck gets lubed with the case.

4) I have, and have not crimped. If not crimping you will want to make your neck a hair tighter. If you have a crimp die, you mise well use it. I typically crimp on bulk 55gr FMJ ammo, and do not crimp on single stage "precision ammo".

 

[turnerdye1]

You will have to worry about trimming once you fire the cases. I have the Worlds Fastest Trimmer chucked into a drill press. I set my trim length just short of where I need it. Then I tumble clean the brass which also removes the few burrs. Then when I resize, it stretches the brass to the length I need. Its not exact every time but its close enough for me. Most my loads are bulk 55gr stuff so I dont need exact measurements.

I lube the brass in a gallon bag, then run them through my 650 in the complete process, then tumbled the loaded rounds for 15min to remove the lube.

 

[ol' poke]

1) I don't remove the lube. I spray a little on 50 rounds, let it dry, then de-prime and size and load.
2) I don't specifically clean inside the neck. They look clean enough coming out of my (dry/walnut shell) tumbler.
3) No additional lube applied other than in step 1 above.
4) I do factory crimp with a Lee die. BUT, as long as the neck tension is enough from when you sized the brass to hold the bullet in place with friction, no crimp is required. Be aware that finished bullets in a semi-auto magazine will experience recoil, and those physical forces can shift a bullet in it's case if the neck is not tight enough (and also if a crimp is insufficient!)

 

[Broom_jm]

Wow, answers are all over the place...and nobody lubes or cleans inside the case neck? Some folks trim and THEN resize?!

1) I either batch load rifle rounds or wipe the (Imperial Sizing Wax) from the case at the end of the process.
2) I always, ALWAYS run an appropriately sized brush down the neck of a case before it's resized...it helps reduce case stretch and helps the expander button exit the case more smoothly. Anyone who hasn't tried this should do a little experiment...measure 10 case lengths, resize 5 w/o cleaning the case necks with a nylon brush and resize 5 after using the brush. Measure each set of 5 cases and see what you find.
3) I sometimes lube the inside of case necks (30 Carbine, for example) because it virtually eliminates case stretch.
4) I crimp (Lee FCD and otherwise) loads used in semi-auto and lever-action rifles, along with rounds used in a revolver, where set-back or bullet creep are a concern. I rarely crimp for loads used in a bolt action rifle.

It's interesting to see all the different ways people reload.

 

[avboiler11]

I spray One Shot on a reloading block of cases, such that spray gets inside the necks and on the shoulders; spin 180 degrees and repeat. Let sit at least 2 minutes before loading, and do not remove excess lube.

I don't specifically 'clean' necks, nor do I go out of my way to lube them as One Shot does that for me.

I don't crimp, period...never created reliability or accuracy issues in an AR with non-cannelured 77gr loads.

Trimming brass sucks, so +1 for using a Worlds Finest Trimmer in a drill for high-volume loading; I use a simple Lee Case Length tool for lower volume rifle loads. Hitting a trimmed case with the Lee Chamfer/Deburring tool finishes that process for me.

1. Tumble
2. Lube
3. Size
4. Trim
5. Load
6. PEW PEW PEW

 

[Doublehelix]

Thanks to all for their responses.

• Sounds like with the Hornady One Shot case lube, I do not have to remove the lube afterwards, which is a great thing. Ryan's process (RVB) is similar to what I have been reading about, and seems like a lot of extra work that I would love to avoid if I can.
• Not sure I want to tumble completed rounds. I have read others say that as well, but it sounds dangerous!
• The neck lube is for *inside* the neck, which apparently helps seat the bullet.
• That Lyman case prep device that Alan posted looks nice (but pricey). Maybe someday...
• The World's Finest Trimmer also looks interesting. I may have to look into that some more, but it is also pricey! Dang...
• All over the place on the crimping advice, which is similar to what I have read elsewhere.

 

[rvb]

Thanks to all for their responses.

• Sounds like with the Hornady One Shot case lube, I do not have to remove the lube afterwards, which is a great thing. Ryan's process (RVB) is similar to what I have been reading about, and seems like a lot of extra work that I would love to avoid if I can.
• Not sure I want to tumble completed rounds. I have read others say that as well, but it sounds dangerous!
• The neck lube is for *inside* the neck, which apparently helps seat the bullet.
• That Lyman case prep device that Alan posted looks nice (but pricey). Maybe someday...
• The World's Finest Trimmer also looks interesting. I may have to look into that some more, but it is also pricey! Dang...
• All over the place on the crimping advice, which is similar to what I have read elsewhere.

Imo, one shot is great pistol lube (I don't even tumble it off pistol loads), but horrible rifle lube...
i try to avoid extra steps whenever I can. But if you have to do other processing steps anyway, eg removing primer crimp, you're not going to get it all done in one pass anyway. So it's not always adding extra work.

Vib tumbling loaded rounds is fine. Rotary tumbling, eg cement mixer, may be sketchy.

-rvb

 

[42769vette]

Thanks to all for their responses.

• Sounds like with the Hornady One Shot case lube, I do not have to remove the lube afterwards, which is a great thing. Ryan's process (RVB) is similar to what I have been reading about, and seems like a lot of extra work that I would love to avoid if I can.
• Not sure I want to tumble completed rounds. I have read others say that as well, but it sounds dangerous!
• The neck lube is for *inside* the neck, which apparently helps seat the bullet.
• That Lyman case prep device that Alan posted looks nice (but pricey). Maybe someday...
• The World's Finest Trimmer also looks interesting. I may have to look into that some more, but it is also pricey! Dang...
• All over the place on the crimping advice, which is similar to what I have read elsewhere.

I have never even heard of people luving the inside of case necks until today. It seems time consuming, and pointless to ne, but to each their own.

The lyman isnt pricy when you look at what it does. Champfer/debur/uniform pockets/remove crimp/clean necks. If you figure handtools are 10 bucks each, and a machine does 9 things motorized for 100 bucks its a bargin.

Many companies mske them, but i only have experuance with the lyman

 

[avboiler11]

I've loaded thousands of rounds of 223/5.56, 223AI, 6mm Dasher, 260, 6.5 Creedmoor and 308 using One Shot...the ONLY time I have ever had issues is a light spray and not giving it at least a couple minutes to 'set up' before sizing.

Only time I've ever stuck a case with OneShot is when I rushed and didn't give it time to do its thing.

Use liberal amounts of spray and allow at least the allotted time before sizing and it has been 100% for me.

Caveat emptor, YMMV, etc.

 

[Broom_jm]

I've loaded for almost 30 years...and (knock on wood) have NEVER stuck a case. My stuck case remover is the one tool I've gotten zero use out of.

Rushing any part of reloading is the quickest way to get in trouble. New reloaders, especially, should slow down and batch load so that they can learn the process AND the pitfalls.

I don't know if it's a function of the era we live in or the geographical oddity of a state that, until this year, did not allow normal rifles/cartridges to be used for deer hunting, but the overwhelming interest in reloading in Indiana seems to be turning out huge volumes of 9mm, 45, 223 and, to a lesser extent, 308. That kind of mass production isn't even what I consider interesting reloading. Finding the right combination of case, primer, powder and bullet to wring 1/2" groups out of a Model 70 in 225 Winchester...THAT'S reloading. My buddy's Cooper Model 38 in 17 Ackley-Hornet...THAT'S reloading.

I really don't mean to come off like a snob, because I load 9mm, 223 and 308 rounds, some of them in volume, but those are pretty boring, really. There's endless data available and since you're usually not shooting for tight groups at 100 yards or more, just bangin' steel, the relative accuracy doesn't matter a whole lot. That just doesn't wind my watch, I guess...YMMV

 

[craigkim]

I use the Hornady lube, the stuff that looks like mink oil. After I resize I then put a capful of rubbing alcohol in my vibratory tumbler with the shells and tumble for a few,15-20 minutes. Cases come out clean and lube free.

Yesterday I had a lot of fun shooting my reloads for groups. I had loaded 2 ladders of Sierra 77 TMK, Lapua cases, WSR, one with TAC and one with N135. I sized and trimmed the Lapua cases on my Giraud, but didn't sort the cases by weight, as they seemed pretty consistent. I shot them off of sandbags yesterday at 100 yards through my 18" barreled JP 15 using a VX3 scope at 14x. I shot them next to my Labradar chrono to check velocities. I couldn't believe the difference in the 2 powders! The TAC shot okay groups of around 1 moa, but the N135 shot sub moa at EVERY powder charge in my ladder. My best 5 shot group was .55" and that is only because I pulled a flyer on the 5th round of the group otherwise it would have been around .25 moa. The ES on the N135 loads was very small and the TAC was very large.

We could actually see the velocity changing with the TAC and the groups opening up to match. So, if i had 2 rounds at one velocity in the group, those would be close, then you might get 2 slightly lower and they would be .5" lower and then another might swing higher and then sit .5" higher on the target. I still like TAC for plinking rounds, but I was just amazed at the difference between the 2 powders.

Fun anyhow. I have never thought of myself as a very good shot, but that round was making me look pretty good.