75 Grain A-MAX C.O.L. Problem

[DoggyDaddy]

I'm trying to load up some .223 using 75 gr. A-Max polymer tipped bullets. According to the Hodgdon load data, my C.O.L. should be 2.25", but with the seating die cranked down as far as it will go, I'm still significantly too long. Any suggestions? As it is now, the first round I loaded is 2.303 and is too long to fit in an AR magazine. Am I just out of luck trying to use these in an AR? Are they only supposed to be used in bolt guns?

 

[BiscuitsandGravy]

I'm trying to load up some .223 using 75 gr. A-Max polymer tipped bullets. According to the Hodgdon load data, my C.O.L. should be 2.25", but with the seating die cranked down as far as it will go, I'm still significantly too long. Any suggestions? As it is now, the first round I loaded is 2.303 and is too long to fit in an AR magazine. Am I just out of luck trying to use these in an AR? Are they only supposed to be used in bolt guns?

Could you post a pic of your press setup for this.

What brand/model of press and die?

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Could you post a pic of your press setup for this.

What brand/model of press and die?

RCBS Rock Chucker press, Lee Dies. I've got another set of Lee .223 dies, so maybe I need to try the seating die from that set? The bottom of the die is touching the shell holder when it's fully engaged, so there's no more room there. Maybe my die is out of spec? I'm baffled because I've never run into this sort of thing before.

 

[Woobie]

F your COAL is 2.250 or less, im not sure why you would have problem fitting them in a GI mag.

 

[Disposable Heart]

The Amax 75 grainer is a bolt only or single shot adapter for the AR15. You cannot load them to mag length.

You're likely compressing the powder and cannot seat further because its too tight.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

F your COAL is 2.250 or less, im not sure why you would have problem fitting them in a GI mag.

I just tried my other seating die and now it's fine. The one I was trying to use must be out of spec. The problem was that I couldn't get it down TO 2.25 with the other one.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

The Amax 75 grainer is a bolt only or single shot adapter for the AR15. You cannot load them to mag length.

Well I did... Are you saying that it's now going to be too short for that bullet? Pressure issues? That's one thing I hate about reloading data. I wish there were a source that had ALL bullet types listed instead of only listing the bullet types with which the powder manufacturer apparently has some kind of business relation with. If I really can't use these that sucks. I'm either going to have to get rid of the bullets or buy a bolt gun.

 

[bocefus78]

Are the profiles on the seater plugs the same from both dies? That just seems odd that 1 works and 1 doesn't.

Lee will custom make those, if you send them a bullet, the die, and a few dollars iirc.

 

[Disposable Heart]

Well I did... Are you saying that it's now going to be too short for that bullet? Pressure issues? That's one thing I hate about reloading data. I wish there were a source that had ALL bullet types listed instead of only listing the bullet types with which the powder manufacturer apparently has some kind of business relation with. If I really can't use these that sucks. I'm either going to have to get rid of the bullets or buy a bolt gun.

The polymer tip of that component bullet is making the OAL of the component much longer than a regular 75 grain OTM component and thus will seat deeper in the case if you make the cartridge OAL the same as the data for a standard OTM component.

I understand your frustration but the Amax, outside of long distance competition, is the exception, not the norm and thus powder companies will release data for the most popular components. Extrapolation of data is okay, but not always with similar weight, like with pistol bullets. Rifle bullets can have wildly varying OAL of the component bullets and cause issues.

If in doubt, contact the bullet manufacturer, rather than the powder maker, for a specific bullet you don't see data released for by the powder maker. They have great help lines and I have yet to have one be curt when asking a question.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Are the profiles on the seater plugs the same from both dies? That just seems odd that 1 works and 1 doesn't.

Lee will custom make those, if you send them a bullet, the die, and a few dollars iirc.

The plugs look to be the same, but I see that with the "good" die, I am able to screw down the center adjustment knob farther than I can on the "bad" die. With the "bad" one, when it's tightened down all the way, it's sticking out farther than the "good" one when it's adjusted to the proper length. It's like maybe the threads don't go all the way through on the "bad" die.

 

[Woobie]

I just tried my other seating die and now it's fine. The one I was trying to use must be out of spec. The problem was that I couldn't get it down TO 2.25 with the other one.

My fault. I saw the OP and thought it read 2.03, not 2.303

 

[DoggyDaddy]

The polymer tip of that component bullet is making the OAL of the component much longer than a regular 75 grain OTM component and thus will seat deeper in the case if you make the cartridge OAL the same as the data for a standard OTM component.

I understand your frustration but the Amax, outside of long distance competition, is the exception, not the norm and thus powder companies will release data for the most popular components. Extrapolation of data is okay, but not always with similar weight, like with pistol bullets. Rifle bullets can have wildly varying OAL of the component bullets and cause issues.

If in doubt, contact the bullet manufacturer, rather than the powder maker, for a specific bullet you don't see data released for by the powder maker. They have great help lines and I have yet to have one be curt when asking a question.

Well poop. I'm loading just above the minimum charge, but I really don't want to blow up my gun if that's going to be a problem. I've loaded polymer tipped A-Max bullets for 6.5 Jap with no issues whatsoever.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

My fault. I saw the OP and thought it read 2.03, not 2.303

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Hmmm... this might not be a bad thing. "Honey, I had to buy a new rifle! You don't want me to get blown up, do ya??"

 

[DoggyDaddy]

FWIW, the Hodgdon data I'm using specifies a bullet type of JLK VLD, whatever that means. I did read that VLD stands for Very Low Drag, but I'm not sure about the JLK.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Phooey... found this on another forum:

"The A-max is quite the unusual bullet. Its very long compared to other bullets of the same weight with a long taper from the tip which gives it a very high ballistic coefficient thus why it flies so well. That's also why it loads at 2.390" or well above mag length for an AR. Try to load that one at mag length, 2.263" or lower, you run into all kinds of loading issues from dead nuts orientation to not over compressing the powder because it takes up so much of the cartridge inside. Its not recommended and can be quite dangerous. That's especially true with Varget which is a high volume rod shaped powder and a compression load with even normal COLs."

Looks like daddy needs a bolt gun!

 

[bocefus78]

JLK Home

Here's your bullet info from the manual

 

[avboiler11]

75gr Amax loaded to AR mag length has the ogive below the case mouth.

People have done it safely and reliably...but I wouldn't. 69/77gr TMK, the new 73gr ELD-Match, or 70gr Nosler RDF are all designed to be fairly high BC while working at AR mag length.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

75gr Amax loaded to AR mag length has the ogive below the case mouth.

People have done it safely and reliably...but I wouldn't. 69/77gr TMK, the new 73gr ELD-Match, or 70gr Nosler RDF are all designed to be fairly high BC while working at AR mag length.

Yeah, I think I'm gonna scrap this idea for now. Thankfully I only loaded one round. Guess I'll load up some Nosler 62 gr. Varmageddon instead. Glad I checked here first!

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Ugh. The only bullet type they list for 62 gr. projectiles with either Varget, IMR 4895 or H335 is SFT SCIR, which is a ballistic tip bullet. The Noslers are HPBT. Grrr!! Why would they not list HPBT data? Aren't they and FMJ pretty much the most common projectile types there are??