9mm pistol rounds vs rifle rounds

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  • Wolffman

    Plinker
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    Jul 19, 2012
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    Just finished the Reloading class tonight so I know enough to ask a question.
    In general, pistol powder burns faster than rifle powder, and they warn you not to use pistol powder in rifle cartridges.
    I have a 9mm upper for my AR. What about pistol rounds being used in a 9mm AR upper? Is this a concern, or did the manufacturer hopefully take this into account when the rifle upper was designed?
    I guess this also applies to old west style guns like a Winchester lever action and a revolver. They both use 45LC. Is this a concern? I guess it must not be because I don't recall hearing stories about cowboys blowing up there rifles using the same ammo.
    Looking for opinions.
    Thanks.
     

    Bfish

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    You are more than ok to shoot any 9mm in your 9mm AR. Carbines or rifles usually can handle much more pressure than a pistol. When you see +P+ 9mm for example that is generally designated for long gun only. Where as regular or +P is safe for use in pistols and carbines both.
     

    SSGSAD

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    Just finished the Reloading class tonight so I know enough to ask a question.
    In general, pistol powder burns faster than rifle powder, and they warn you not to use pistol powder in rifle cartridges.
    I have a 9mm upper for my AR. What about pistol rounds being used in a 9mm AR upper? Is this a concern, or did the manufacturer hopefully take this into account when the rifle upper was designed?
    I guess this also applies to old west style guns like a Winchester lever action and a revolver. They both use 45LC. Is this a concern? I guess it must not be because I don't recall hearing stories about cowboys blowing up there rifles using the same ammo.
    Looking for opinions.
    Thanks.


    I think you are asking a reloading question .....

    NEVER use rifle powder, for a pistol caliber .....

    Factory ammo, is made for pistol, but it is ok for carbines and rifles .....

    When you are talking about .44 mag., and .45 Colt,

    There are a LOT of powders to choose from .....

    Bullseye, is a very fast powder, "made" for "short" barrels .....

    2400, Blue Dot, and others, are "slow burning" powders, "made" for "long" barrels .....

    You Never use, say 3031, in a pistol round, like a 9mm .....

    That powder is made for a rifle, like a 30-30, or a .308 .....

    I hope this helps .....
     

    OHOIAN

    Marksman
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    Jul 20, 2014
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    9mm and 45LC are pistol cartridges regardless of what weapon they are fired from. The longer barrel will give you higher velocities, because the bullet will have more time accelerating in the barrel.
     

    oldpink

    Grandmaster
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    You're good to go using handgun ammo in carbines.
    That applies equally to lever guns in handgun calibers, such as the Winchester 94 or 92 and the Marlin 1894.
    The only difference you'll see is that you'll get significantly higher muzzle velocity out of a carbine.
     

    Leo

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    Mar 3, 2011
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    Everyone gave good answers.

    Safety warning! Don't even think about it!

    Never, never NEVER use pistol powder in a bottle necked rifle cartridge like a .223 Remington. It will blow up an AR. Not just crack it, but blow it in multiple pieces, I have seen it.

    Pistol powder in a pistol caliber in a carbine is proper.
     

    rvb

    Grandmaster
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    simplest answer I've not seen here is to use powders recommended in your reloading manuals for that particular cartridge.

    So, for example, if loading .223, use powders for .223 found in your manual. regardless if shooting from a 20" rifle, or an AR-15 "pistol."
    Similar for 9mm, use powder listed for 9mm, regardless of whether from a pistol or a rifle chambered in 9mm.

    -rvb
     

    Bsubtown

    Plinker
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    Jun 19, 2013
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    9mm and 45LC are pistol cartridges regardless of what weapon they are fired from. The longer barrel will give you higher velocities, because the bullet will have more time accelerating in the barrel.

    The above is correct. At some point you may want to use a slower burning pistol powder to get a bit more velocity out of the longer barrel.

    For me I wouldn't chase too much performance out of the 9mm. You are shooting poor BCs with poor SDs anyway. Find a safe load that works in your guns and use it. Pistol caliber reloading, for me, is strictly about the cost savings and the enjoyment of the process.
     

    Old Dog

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    simplest answer I've not seen here is to use powders recommended in your reloading manuals for that particular cartridge.

    So, for example, if loading .223, use powders for .223 found in your manual. regardless if shooting from a 20" rifle, or an AR-15 "pistol."
    Similar for 9mm, use powder listed for 9mm, regardless of whether from a pistol or a rifle chambered in 9mm.

    -rvb

    What rvb said: get a reloading manual and FOLLOW it for the caliber you want to load.
     

    oldpink

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    Yep, I have to echo the other guys who made the common sense advisement to stick to published data.
    The only thing I can say about loading for a carbine over a handgun is that you'll definitely get greater muzzle velocity with a given handgun caliber from one if you use one of the slower burning powders, i.e. Using H110 in a .45 Colt instead of Unique.
    Keep in mind that your bullets will need to be able to stand up to that greater muzzle velocity, so if you're intending to do more than just target shoot, you'll want to find a bullet designed to hold together when it strikes a living thing.
     

    Wolffman

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    In response to Leo...
    Yeah boy. They showed us pictures of an AR upper blown apart. That's an attention getter.
     

    Broom_jm

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    Powders are not "pistol" powders or "rifle" powders, they just have burn rates that are slower or faster, based on geometry, coatings and various other factors.

    IMR4198 is what some call a very fast rifle powder, or a very slow pistol powder, but it's just a smokeless powder of a specific burn rate.

    Some cartridges stretch the boundaries of what we like to call pistol cartridges, and other cartridges are fired from longer barrels, which we normally associate with rifles. Just like a powder is a powder, a cartridge is a cartridge. They have varying case capacities, with varying expansion ratios in the chamber and barrel. For example, most folks call a 44 Special a pistol cartridge and it uses relatively fast-burning powder that most would call a "pistol" powder. The same is generally true with the 44 Magnum, although with the heaviest bullet weights, powders like 4227 and 4198 (fast "rifle" powders) are sometimes used. Both of those cartridges are quite commonly fired from carbine or rifle length barrels, usually lever actions. To further complicate matters, you have the 445 Super Mag, which is the same case, lengthened even more. It is a "tweener" type of cartridge that benefits from powders such as WW680 (God rest your soul), AA1680, RL10X and others that sort of defy being categorized as pistol or rifle powders. Then you have the 444 Marlin, which is another step up in length and capacity. It is most frequently loaded with what are labeled fast-burning rifle powders.

    There is no one correct answer, other than the one RVB gave...stick to the loading manual for your cartridge! Forget about the length barrel it's being fired from, as it doesn't really make much difference, other than the velocity obtained.
     

    noylj

    Marksman
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    First of all, your instructor wasn't very clear.
    You can't use rifle powders in standard pistol cases as the powder burns too slow and in many cases won't even ignite properly.
    You can use pistol powders in rifle cases, but the charges are so small and the results so anemic that it isn't worth it. Many folks, however, do shoot lead bullets in their rifles and they keep velocities very low, with loads of 10-12 gn of Red Dot being quite common. They can also load the lead bullets up to the same levels as jacketed bullets, but then they are using the same rifle powders. I can shoot my 7mm TCU from 1100fps to 2200 fps with lead bullets--but I use different powders.
    Next, ANY 9x19 chambered gun shoots standard 9x19 cartridges and uses the same loads. Doesn't matter what the barrel length, the chamber pressure is what matters and the case and chamber are the same in a rifle or pistol.
    If you look at any powder relative burn rate chart, there is NO clear demarkation from pistol, shotgun, magnum handgun, and rifle. Every cartridge does best with a powder in the burn rate that matches the case size and pressure of the cartridge.
    My .30-30 T/C Contender with 8" barrel uses the SAME powders as my Win M94 for maximum performance.
    No matter what the barrel length, the powder that produces the highest velocity through a 28" barrel will produce the highest velocity through a 3" barrel--though the velocity will drop with shorter barrel length.
    All the powder that will burn will do so within at least the first 2" of barrel length--or so say the powder industry.
    You'll find rifle data for a handgun cartridge in some reloading manuals, but not because the rifle needs different loads but because the rifle is stronger and can USE different powders and load data. This should be covered in the "introduction" paragraphs before the load data. Likewise, you'll find std .30-06 data and special Garand data in a manual due to the Garand needing a narrower range of powder burn rate.
    Next, you should have taken one thing from any reloading class--only use data from a reputable manual and always start at the start load and work up. Almost everything else can fall into the region of personal opinion.
    My personal opinion from experience is to check several manuals and start at the lowest starting load.
    So, as a new reloader:
    1) start with JACKETED bullets, not plated or lead
    2) start with a powder that is common for your cartridge. If you have more than one manual, you can look for powders that are common to both and also note any reference to the most accurate powder they found.
    3) don't start doing any benchrest tricks or anything else. Don't try to solve some obscure problem that some people talk about. Just do your reloading as detailed in the manuals and LEARN. Start slow and crawl before you walk.
    4) Record all loads and include information on performance and accuracy so you'll know where you were and where you are going.
    5) Set up the dies per instructions and not by any tricks or short cuts you have read on the 'net.
    6) COL is not found in manuals--it depends on YOUR chamber and YOUR bullets.
    Your COL (OAL) is determined by your barrel (chamber and throat dimensions) and your gun (feed ramp) and your magazine (COL that fits magazine and when the magazine lips release the round for feeding) and the PARTICULAR bullet you are using. What worked in a pressure barrel or the lab's gun or in my gun has very little to do with what will work best in your gun.
    Take the barrel out of the gun. Create two inert dummy rounds (no powder or primer) at max COL and remove enough case mouth flare for rounds to chamber (you can achieve this by using a sized case—expand-and-flare it, and remove the flare just until the case "plunks" in the barrel).
    Drop the inert rounds in and decrease the COL until they chamber completely. This will be your "max" effective COL. I prefer to have the case head flush with the barrel hood. After this, place the inert rounds in the magazine and be sure they fit the magazine and feed and chamber.
    You can also do this for any chambering problems you have. Remove the barrel and drop rounds in until you find one that won't chamber. Take that round and "paint" the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop round in barrel (or gage) and rotate it back-and-forth.
    Remove and inspect the round:
    1) scratches on bullet--COL is too long
    2) scratches on edge of the case mouth--insufficient crimp
    3) scratches just below the case mouth--too much crimp, you're crushing the case
    4) scratches on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating stem fit
    5) scratches on case just above extractor groove--case bulge not removed during sizing. May need a bulge buste
     
    Last edited:

    boman

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    You'll find rifle data for a handgun cartridge in some reloading manuals, but not because the rifle needs different loads but because the rifle is stronger and can USE different powders and load data.

    This, I think, pretty well sums it up.

    Steve
     

    BrianT

    Plinker
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    Mar 6, 2017
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    Butlerville
    You're overthinking this, your AR upper is built for 9mm that won't change what powders and projectiles you load them with. Only use published data period especially when you're starting out. Triple check your data and weigh a minimum of 5 charges before you make a live round from it. When you're talking about "Rifle", "Ruger Only", or "TC Contender only" data this is because some newer guns can take much hotter loads and some actions are just physically tougher than others. If they say those weapons only, don't mess with it until you are more experienced. Get some loads under your belt and have fun!
     
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