Need digital scale advice

[jhart]

Ok I have been using my lee beam scale for all my loading needs. But not the easiest to use with the tickler. So I decided to try a digital scale was a lot more convenient but not at all accurate. It was a lyman 1500 pocket scale and it was varying by .3 grains and wouldn't match the beam scale ever. constantly in and out of zero. I load in my garage led lights, on my work bench. I know to some it sounds anal but as a machinist precision is a part of my life so I'm anal about it. Plus I'm loading .223 for matches so what is the best digital, reliable scale to get me consistent reliable charges to .1 grain. I've looked at the gem pro 250, but seen a lot of reviews that it take a crap after about 3-4 months. The RCBS seems to be good choice on some reviews but others not so much. As seems a lot of the others I have checked on both good and bad reviews. I don't mind spending 200.00 on a quality product but I don't wanna spend 200.00 every three months or keep experimenting. What have you guys had the best luck with.

Also thanks for all the answers to all my noob questions lately as I'm just getting into the precision side of things. And the great groups of guys here have been an invaluable resource.

 

[mac45]

Before you give up....
Make sure the scale is level, and turn it on a couple hours before you start using it.
Have 2 RCBS scales, and they both seem to "settle down" after being on a while.
(FWIW Other than the warm up period, both of mine seem accurate)

May or may not make a difference, but it won't cost anything to try.

 

[Fullmag]

What you using for a powder measure? What kinda powder also? Most measures are very accurate and repeatable.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

The lee measure is about as inexpensive as a mechanical scale can get, so don't judge all mechanical scales by what you have.
Understand that with a digital scale you can have inherent problems, different lighting , air currents , room temperature and warm up time can reek havoc with a digital scale, along with some other issues.
You tend not to have most of those problems with a analog scale, it's difficult to forget to warm something up if it doesn't have a switch. I would suggest that you search eBay or other sites and find a rcbs 10-10 scale.
It will last 3 lifetimes and no battery's to leak or replace.

 

[sloughfoot]

I first purchased a Pact scale in like 1993. All these years I suffered with what I consider to be a first generation machine. It hardly ever agreed with my beam scales.

Six months ago I purchased a Frankford Arsenal Precision Powder Scale, Platinum Series. I could not be more pleased with the performance of this $80 machine from MidwayUSA or Tomlinsons in Churubusco, IN. Accurate, stable, and not too expensive, I have stopped comparing to my beam scales.

I no longer need to worry about warm up, fluorescent lights, room temperature because it is not sensitive to these factors like my old Pact was. I still keep the furnace vents closed in my reloading area, but mostly out of habit.

This scale is my whole hearted recommendation. Heck, they were on sale for 60 bucks the last time I looked......

 

[JJM7288]

I recently purchased a GemPro250 to replace my old RCBS Powder Pro. The GemPro 250 is a very high quality, accurate scale.

 

[jhart]

thanks guys for the replys. They lyman pocket is gonna go back to midway, Had a chance to play with a dillion yesterday at the range, and they had them on sale. So I picked one up. Hope it works as well at home guess we will find out this weekend.

 

[gmcttr]

As others have stated, turn your digital scale on well ahead of time for stable readings. It will help you get the most from your new scale.

 

[Fullmag]

Tried the MTM scale it was difficult warm up due to auto shutdown. Have since abandoned digital scales and use a RCBS beam scale it stabilizes very quick and is reliable.

 

[natdscott]

...as a machinist precision is a part of my life so I'm anal about it. Plus I'm loading .223 for matches so what is the best digital, reliable scale to get me consistent reliable charges to .1 grain.

I understand what you mean about precision and accuracy, but don't get so wrapped up in it that you lose sight of the goal: holes in the target. Unless reloading IS the hobby, don't forget that it is just one of several steps to reach the actual goal.

Now I'll as what is really bugging me: For what kind of matches are you loading this .223 ammunition?

I'm not going to tell you that hand-weighing every charge is unnecessary until I hear the answer to that, but I will say that SOMEtimes it is unnecessary and money spent on really nice scales could be better spent elsewhere.

Stop weighing:

http://harrellsprec.com/index.php/products/premium-powder-measure\

I guarantee you that you will not beat me at 600 yards at Atterbury because you weigh your .223 charges and I have stopped weighing them in lieu of just trusting Harrell's work to do what I ask of it.

Now if you're going to be shooting against me beyond 5/600, then I have a different answer...

-Nate

 

[ScouT6a]

For an electronic scale, I use the Dillon D-Terminator. It is accurate, easy to use and won't break the bank. only use it when changing the powder charge on my Dillon 550B or to check the charge on my Lyman #55 powder measure.

 

[Gyro]

Sounds like you may have possibly had a bad scale. It happens to every manufacturer. If you hadn't already purchased a scale, I would highly suggest the RCBS Chargemaster.

 

[oldpink]

I understand what you mean about precision and accuracy, but don't get so wrapped up in it that you lose sight of the goal: holes in the target. Unless reloading IS the hobby, don't forget that it is just one of several steps to reach the actual goal.

Now I'll as what is really bugging me: For what kind of matches are you loading this .223 ammunition?

I'm not going to tell you that hand-weighing every charge is unnecessary until I hear the answer to that, but I will say that SOMEtimes it is unnecessary and money spent on really nice scales could be better spent elsewhere.

Stop weighing:

http://harrellsprec.com/index.php/products/premium-powder-measure\

I guarantee you that you will not beat me at 600 yards at Atterbury because you weigh your .223 charges and I have stopped weighing them in lieu of just trusting Harrell's work to do what I ask of it.

Now if you're going to be shooting against me beyond 5/600, then I have a different answer...

-Nate

The Rolls Royce of conventional powder measures, or so I've been told.

 

[natdscott]

The Rolls Royce of conventional powder measures, or so I've been told.

That, or Neil Jones. I think mostly the preference between those two guy's stuff has more to do with whose machining style you like best than it does with any difference in performance. That, and the fact that Neil charges a WHOLE lot more for his products. Over $475 delivered for just the measure, where Harrell's is about $275.

The Harrell does throw magnificently though, and my 600 yard ammo is all thrown. If I were a better shooter, I'd shoot a slew of Xs with it, but as is, my long line load is still somewhere between 0.400 and 0.500 MOA on short line testing, and certainly not more than 6" vertical at 600. The last State Champ I fired in 2015, vertical spread was about 7" on the whole string; if anybody is really paying attention to scores, you'd like to know that the 2 points I left on the table were close Nines on the downwind side...ie: entirely my fault.

-Nate

 

[jhart]

I understand what you mean about precision and accuracy, but don't get so wrapped up in it that you lose sight of the goal: holes in the target. Unless reloading IS the hobby, don't forget that it is just one of several steps to reach the actual goal.

Now I'll as what is really bugging me: For what kind of matches are you loading this .223 ammunition?

I'm not going to tell you that hand-weighing every charge is unnecessary until I hear the answer to that, but I will say that SOMEtimes it is unnecessary and money spent on really nice scales could be better spent elsewhere.

Stop weighing:

http://harrellsprec.com/index.php/products/premium-powder-measure\

I guarantee you that you will not beat me at 600 yards at Atterbury because you weigh your .223 charges and I have stopped weighing them in lieu of just trusting Harrell's work to do what I ask of it.

Now if you're going to be shooting against me beyond 5/600, then I have a different answer...

-Nate

Nate mainly I will be shooting across the course and mid range matches. Unfortunately when I look at the schedule all of them are on the same weekend and really don't wanna eat up the whole weekend so I will probably just shoot across the course service rifle this year. Till I get my feet wet. but do wanna shoot at least one or two mid range matches.


As for the digital scale I have a beam scale not the greatest of beam scales and the digital scale is a second faster check and hopeful replacement to the beam scale. I won't be weighing every charge since I'm using ram shot (ball powder my lee throws it with in .1 grain every time.) The main reason for the digital scale is just simplicity and I am playing with a lot of different powders right now, I have ram shot that I will shoot for most matches only cause I know it. but am trying , varget, and Imr 4895, h4895. Trying to figure out what my rifle likes the best. So the digital scale with a trickler makes it faster to do test shots where I wanna know it's not the round, It's the shooter and his lack of skills. But the skills are slowly getting better but off hand is gonna kill me and the fact that even on my best day my groups are still in the 2 inch range with the heavier 68-69 grainers. (unless I shoot 55 grain then there sub moa) but that a whole different topic. I am trying to keep it simple all rounds are 68 grain hornady. I tried sierra but in my hands the hornady and the sierra don't seem to be much different. and the hornady is cheaper so it wins. Right now it's a lot to experiment with and lots to learn. And the digital scale was the last major purchase I wanted to make. But for the matches right now the round will be 24 grains of ram shot tac powder with a 68 grain hornady match bthp using cci primers. But hope to change the tac powder soon since it drives the 55 grainers with tack like precision but not so good with the heavier rounds. I should also state that all my test rounds are done from bags to again make sure I take as much of my lack of skill out of the equation as possible.

Also on the scale side an accurate scale isn't necessarily what I wanted but repeatable is. By that I mean every time I use the scale I want it to read the same with in .1 grain or so. The lyman was varying .5 grains every time I put the empty pan on it but when I put the the calibrated weight on it would always read correct. In gram mode it seemed to repeat no problem but in the grain setting it was bouncing around a lot. Now if the measurement it tells me, is say 23.5 grains is not really 23.5 grains but more like 23.0 grains I'm good with that as long as it is always lying consistent. like say dump the charge into a separate container several times and then back to scale I want it to come back with the same numbers. Since the number it gives me will be the numbers that get put down for my final load data. even if I have to zero it every time that isn't a big deal as long as after i re zero it comes back and says the same thing again.

upper right corner of second pic is 55 grain rounds Rest is test rounds with diffent powders and charges of 68 grain hornady. all from this weekend.

View attachment 53594 View attachment 53595

 

[natdscott]

Good! Shooting XC is great for growing hair on the chest!

About the powders, just pick one, make sure that the one is Varget, and shoot a lot more of those 68's at varying charges to see what it wants. What I am saying is that the work has already been done, and probably 75% of everything that is won in a year is still done with either Varget or RE-15.

Everything I've done in this sport, every win, every record, every fake wood plaque...was earned with RE-15, Harrell BR, and an Ohaus 10-10. That's not a statement of what should be done so much as it is a statement of what can be done with common powder and a $100 beam balance.

That being said, one can't just rest on the laurels of what HAS worked either. Any change in the status quo may of course require reexamination of the inputs needed for success. Trying Long Range has required some changes in my thought process, for example.

Last thing I'll mention is that when you are setting your powder measure, throw 10 throws into the pan, measure THAT, and adjust the thrower according to the average of those 10 throws. You'll be a LOT more accurate on what is actually going in the casings.

Whoops. Almost last thing. Get one of these and read it: Zediker Publishing

Costs 2 boxes of bullets and is worth 20.

-Nate

 

[Clay Pigeon]

The Rolls Royce of conventional powder measures, or so I've been told.

Where I load at he has two Harrell Bros measures.
He has the big one with ball bearings and the small pistol measure ( Schutzen? ) for the little 17 an d 19's he shoots.
Very smooth to use, not like the Uniflow or the Lymans he has.

 

[natdscott]

Clay Pigeon, do you use both of them?

What's your overall opinion of the Schuetzen measure? I've considered adding one. I like the idea of finer graduations of powder.

-Nate

 

[jhart]

Good! Shooting XC is great for growing hair on the chest!

About the powders, just pick one, make sure that the one is Varget, and shoot a lot more of those 68's at varying charges to see what it wants. What I am saying is that the work has already been done, and probably 75% of everything that is won in a year is still done with either Varget or RE-15.

Everything I've done in this sport, every win, every record, every fake wood plaque...was earned with RE-15, Harrell BR, and an Ohaus 10-10. That's not a statement of what should be done so much as it is a statement of what can be done with common powder and a $100 beam balance.

That being said, one can't just rest on the laurels of what HAS worked either. Any change in the status quo may of course require reexamination of the inputs needed for success. Trying Long Range has required some changes in my thought process, for example.

Last thing I'll mention is that when you are setting your powder measure, throw 10 throws into the pan, measure THAT, and adjust the thrower according to the average of those 10 throws. You'll be a LOT more accurate on what is actually going in the casings.

Whoops. Almost last thing. Get one of these and read it: Zediker Publishing

Costs 2 boxes of bullets and is worth 20.

-Nate

Thanks for info nate. I Will definetly get one. And handnt thought of throwing powder like that. I will do that.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

Clay Pigeon, do you use both of them?

What's your overall opinion of the Schuetzen measure? I've considered adding one. I like the idea of finer graduations of powder.

-Nate

It mainly gets used for little wildcats he forms and loads.
17 Heebee and Squirrel.
19 Calhoon and 19 Badger.
Parents cases are 22 hornet, 218 Bee and 30 carbine.
With 17 squirrel and 19 Calhoon a 1/10th of a grain extra can push past pressure limits. He doesn't weigh at all after he sets up his measure.

I know he CRYS about paying for there products, but even their powder stands are outstanding equipment.
I'm sure you would be happy with one.

I also know that he knows the Harrell's, he used to shoot benchrest with them down in Southern Virginia when 222 was king.