Cast and plated/jacketed in same barrel.

[Mgderf]

I'm new to reloading, but I've been shooting for a while.
No competition, just hunting, or target shooting for fun.

Reading on another forum about someone having accuracy issues with cast bullets as opposed to good accuracy with plated/jacketed bullets from the same rifle.

One respondent told him you should never shoot cast and plated/jacketed bullets from the same barrel.
Something about lead deposits adhering to copper deposits, which supposedly affects accuracy.

Seems to me, if you kept your barrel clean, it shouldn't matter what you run through it, as long as it is a quality barrel.

What say Ingo?

 

[mac45]

I've seen rifles that shot cast well, but not jacketed.....and vice versa.
But these are exceptions, not the rule.
The idea that you shouldn't shoot cast and jacketed from the same barrel is simply BS.

 

[oldpink]

I've never shot led out of a rifle, but it is possible to get poor accuracy with lead from some rifle barrels that shoot well with plated or jacketed bullets, especially with the Marlin rifles with Microgroove rifling, at least if the lead alloy you are shooting is very soft or if you push your muzzle velocity.
The conventional advice with lead in Microgroove barrels is to use relatively lightweight bullets with some alloy (antimony and/or tin) to harden them a bit, and to keep your velocities on the low end, with gas checks as another option to minimize leading and help the shallow rifling stabilize the bullet.
I don't buy the idea of not shooting jacketed/plated out of the same barrels as you shoot lead from, unless you have heavily leaded the barrel, in which case it is possible that the much harder jacketed or plated bullet running into excessive resistance from the leading could cause pressures to skyrocket, at least in theory, if not in fact.
Naturally, following the advice about using appropriate techniques with lead bullets and cleaning out any leading before switching to plated/jacketed will prevent any safety issues.

 

[Max Volume]

The issue with lead is that it must be properly sized to the bore for best accuracy and no leading of the barrel. To get the proper size one must slug the barrel and use a micrometer or caliper to measure the grove diameter. Diameter can vary a few thousandths even in guns of the same make and model. A bullet one or two thousands over grove diameter generally works best. Another issue with lead is using lead that is too soft for the velocity which is where gas checks come into play. It is well known that Marlin Micro grove barrels can shoot lead very well when using a properly sized projectile. Jacketed will shoot without going through this process since it grabs the rifling better than lead. SHooting lead and jacketed in the same barrel without cleaning won't really cause irreparable damage but will be a total pain to clean out. Some folks say to shoot jacketed after lead. If a barrel is severely leaded (due to the problems above) it can raise pressures which may not be too good.

 

[Whip_McCord]

The main concern with shooting lead after jacketed is, if the jacket fouling is not completely cleaned from the bore, the lead bullet will be gliding over the fouling and not the bore surface. It will be rougher than the bore surface and you will not get the best accuracy from the lead bullets. This advice is best for bullseye shooters, silhouette shooters, and anyone looking for the most accuracy the can squeeze out of their firearms. I do not usually mix bullet in my guns, and I mostly shoot cast or swaged bullets.

The other posts mentioning pressure can be correct if lead fouling is bad enough and jacketed bullets are fired. That may be something to think about too, but the accuracy issues mentioned in the original post are caused by my explanation above. I have been reloading and casting bullets for 36 years. I shoot bullseye, long range (200 meters) pistol silhouette, and several other disciplines. This advice has helped me maintain the accuracy needed for those disciplines, so I try to obey that advice for the most part. If I need to try some lead after shooting jacketed or vice versa, I clean the barrel thoroughly. Hope this helps.

 

[Leadeye]

Like Whip says unless you're really splitting hairs for accuracy it's not that relevant. In 40 years I've mixed jacketed and cast with no issues, but have to agree with Old Pink, Marlin Microgroove and cast must require some sort of magic. I stick with jacketed for those barrels. Rifle caliber works with cast, gas checks are usually in order. Straight wall cartridges will be easier than bottle neck to get accuracy with. Know your bore, size and condition, and plan your ammo and shooting around it.

 

[Leo]

If you don't let your barrel get heavily fouled you are in good shape either way. The microgroove barrel advice is good, I had the same issue with a Marlin.

Calibers like 45-70 tend to do better with cast bullets (low velocity) than bottle neck cartridges. Even with the 30/30 I had best results with gas checked bullets. In calibers like 30-06 gas checked bullets performed fine if they were loaded slow like to 30/30 velocity. The barrel twist rates have a factor in low velocity/high velocity performance. Try a few is the only way to know for sure.

There are twist guidelines, but they have been proven wrong for reasons I cannot explain. I have a 9 twist .223 barrel that makes one hole groups with the 77 grain Sierras that supposedly are not good with that twist. That barrel is supposed to shoot 52-62-69 gr bullets the best, and it barely shoots them good enough to save the barrel. I even measured the twist to be sure. I cannot explain it, I just enjoy the accuracy with 77's.

 

[Mgderf]

There are twist guidelines, but they have been proven wrong for reasons I cannot explain. I have a 9 twist .223 barrel that makes one hole groups with the 77 grain Sierras that supposedly are not good with that twist. That barrel is supposed to shoot 52-62-69 gr bullets the best, and it barely shoots them good enough to save the barrel. I even measured the twist to be sure. I cannot explain it, I just enjoy the accuracy with 77's.

Sometimes physics takes a holiday.

 

[Whip_McCord]

Like Whip says unless you're really splitting hairs for accuracy it's not that relevant. In 40 years I've mixed jacketed and cast with no issues, but have to agree with Old Pink, Marlin Microgroove and cast must require some sort of magic. I stick with jacketed for those barrels. Rifle caliber works with cast, gas checks are usually in order. Straight wall cartridges will be easier than bottle neck to get accuracy with. Know your bore, size and condition, and plan your ammo and shooting around it.

I do have a lead load that shoots great from my Micro-groove Marlin 30-30. 165 grain lead (no gas check) with 10 grains of AA#5, clocked at 1400fps. Got the idea from Handloader's Cast Bullet Annual, many years ago, except they used around 8-9 grains of Unique. It is pretty accurate up to 150 meters. After that I get some key-holing due to slower velocities. It is a nice, mild load. Great for plinking and cowboy side matches. I think many guys try to push lead too fast thru the micro-groove and the lead just strips out of the shallow grooves.

 

[Leadeye]

I do have a lead load that shoots great from my Micro-groove Marlin 30-30. 165 grain lead (no gas check) with 10 grains of AA#5, clocked at 1400fps. Got the idea from Handloader's Cast Bullet Annual, many years ago, except they used around 8-9 grains of Unique. It is pretty accurate up to 150 meters. After that I get some key-holing due to slower velocities. It is a nice, mild load. Great for plinking and cowboy side matches. I think many guys try to push lead too fast thru the micro-groove and the lead just strips out of the shallow grooves.

I must admit that my experience with MG barrels is limited to 44 mag and 444 Marlin. I tried the Ranch Dog design that I picked up from Cast Boolits without much success.

 

[Leo]

I do have a lead load that shoots great from my Micro-groove Marlin 30-30. 165 grain lead (no gas check) with 10 grains of AA#5, clocked at 1400fps. Got the idea from Handloader's Cast Bullet Annual, many years ago, except they used around 8-9 grains of Unique. It is pretty accurate up to 150 meters. After that I get some key-holing due to slower velocities. It is a nice, mild load. Great for plinking and cowboy side matches. I think many guys try to push lead too fast thru the micro-groove and the lead just strips out of the shallow grooves.

I have heard of the pistol velocity loads in the 30/30 but have never tried them. I had a short stint with the 7mm Waters, but quickly went to the 7mm TCU to eliminate all that empty case. Do you have to push a cotton ball in the case to hold that small powder charge in place? Some benchrest guys used to do that before the development of the short BR calibers.

I have always been pretty nervous with pistol powders in a rifle cartidge. The logic side of me understands it is sutable for a special application, but the other side warns that a screw up will probably cost the side of my face when the gun comes apart.

 

[Whip_McCord]

I have heard of the pistol velocity loads in the 30/30 but have never tried them. I had a short stint with the 7mm Waters, but quickly went to the 7mm TCU to eliminate all that empty case. Do you have to push a cotton ball in the case to hold that small powder charge in place? Some benchrest guys used to do that before the development of the short BR calibers.

I have always been pretty nervous with pistol powders in a rifle cartridge. The logic side of me understands it is suitable for a special application, but the other side warns that a screw up will probably cost the side of my face when the gun comes apart.

I shoot 7TCU also. I was interested in the 7-30 Waters for unlimited class for a while, but my wife bought my friend's XP-100 in 7BR for me one Christmas. Nice round. Very accurate.

No, I do not use anything to hold back the powder. I've read many articles that sounded like that was not the best idea. I understand your apprehension on the fast powders in rifle cartridges. I do not make that a practice, but have not had any issues with AA#5 in the 30-30. It is a nice, accurate load that is very mild shooting.

 

[1980Harley]

I've never had a problem shooting either one out of the same barrel as many have already said. The only thing I notice is that after shooting cast, my jacketed loads shoot about 10% higher velocity than they had previously on the first shot. For subsequent shots, the velocity drops to normal after about 5 shots. Could be the lube left in the barrel, but I'm not sure. This happens to just about all the guns I shoot with both jacketed and cast.

 

[NKBJ]

For micro-groove barrels go with larger than groove diameter bullets. As if to say load with what will go in the throat of your particular piece instead of what the book tells you.
How bad jacketed fouling will affect your cast bullet accuracy depends upon how much the steel in your barrel is picking up the jacket metal fouling.
That depends upon the metals, the rifling geometry, everything happening when you squeeze the trigger. Don't forget the majority of the conventional wisdom contained in the annals of cast loading manuals was developed using pistol powders to kick slugs in the behind instead of using slow powders to gently swoosh the bullet down the bore and also that oodles and scads of the data was developed using mil surplus guns with less than perfect bores. On them you really have to scrub it clean to get rid of the jacket fouling that was ripped off the bullets by the shadowy bores.
Still and all though, if you want to shoot your best with cast it's always best to get rid of the copper.

 

[LarryC]

When I used to shoot my Colt Double Eagle (45) a lot, I would shoot my cast reloads for a while then shoot a couple of mags of FMJ's when I quit shooting. I found it made it a lot easier to remove all the lead from the barrel when I got home. I did this for a few years without any issues at all. I wasn't trying for pinpoint accuracy with the FMJ's. just avoiding work!