What am I doing wrong?

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  • Mgderf

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    May 30, 2009
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    O.K. I'm still a fairly new handloader so there's a LOT that I don't know.
    I have had great success reloading straight-walled pistol cases. Very few issues.

    I recently decided to start loading rifle cases (bottlenecks) and started with the .35Remington.
    I loaded 10 rounds with 40grs of LeverEvolution under a 200gr Sierra Pro Hunter pill.
    Seven of those 10 showed much promise. Very accurate, fed/fired and ejected like factory ammo.

    Three of those initial 10 rounds would not allow the action to fully close on my Marlin 336.
    Figured I did something wrong so I'd pull them down and start again.

    Those rounds are still loaded and waiting to be pulled.
    I loaded another 10 rounds the other day and not ONE of them will allow the action to close.
    WTH?

    I've measured them with calipers and they seem in spec. Primers are fully seated, O.A.L. is well under max, and there are no obvious signs of a bulged case.
    Someone suggested maybe I had crimped them too hard so I tried to chamber them before and after crimping.
    Still can't get the action to close on these rounds.

    Factory offerings just glide through the action.
    So, what am I doing to screw these up?
    I now have a bakers dozen of bad rounds assembled and don't know what the issue is.

    Any help?
     

    fordfarmboy

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    I would say the neck is not sizes or pushed back right . I use a gage for my 223 cases to check neck, you can color the case with black marker up my the neck and put it in and slowly chamber it , should mark the case and show you the problem.
     

    Sling10mm

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    Is this new or fired brass, and did you full length size it before you loaded it? My first thought would be a headspace issue... i.e. the shoulder hasn't been pushed back far enough.
     

    OHOIAN

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    Jul 20, 2014
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    Are you using a full length sizing die?
    Is the die set to just touch the shell holder at the top of the press stroke?
    What brand/type of dies?
    Is brass fired from your rifle or some other rifle?
    I suspect that the shoulder needs to be pushed back a few thousandths of an inch further.
    Check to see if brass chambers right after sizing.
    And check trim length of brass.
     

    Mgderf

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    These are brand new Hornady cases.
    I set the sizing die according to the instructions that came with the die set.

    How do I adjust to push the shoulder back further?
     

    natdscott

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    I would say the shoulder is not sizes or pushed back right . I use a gage for my 223 cases to check shoulder, you can color the case with black marker up my the shoulder and put it in and slowly chamber it , should mark the case and show you the problem.

    I'm no pedant, but this is an area where terminology is really important.

    Neck = the parallel-ish portion of the casing that holds and releases the bullet.

    Shoulder = the funnel-ish portion that transitions from the straight body of the casing into the neck...also what results in them being called "bottleneck" casings. The shoulder is what gets pushed back.



    OP: there is a VERY good chance these guys are right about the shoulder. You need a guage...there are chamber type gauges like Wilson, screw-together gauges like RCBS and Whidden, and caliper-mounted gauges such as Sinclair and Hornady LNL.

    By far the preferred is the screw together from Whidden because they actually TIME their gauges with a steel SAAMI headspace gauge IN the tool, and laser etch the markings while it is locked down. SMART.

    RCBS is okay. Loosey goosey on the threads, but basically functional.

    Caliper mounted is awesome IF you understand what you are looking at, and is best with an electronic caliper that can be zeroed. Say...on a steel SAAMI headspace gauge.
    Caliper mounted gauges also have the noted functionality of being fully interchangable between all cartridges with just a bushing change, and also can gauge bullet-distance-to-lands, again with a bushing change.

    For that versatility, I personally prefer the Sinclair gauge.


    Stay away from the chamber type gauges like Wilson and I think Dillon. They are basically only go/no-go...and give you alomst no real numbers.


    -Nate
     

    natdscott

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    These are brand new Hornady cases.
    I set the sizing die according to the instructions that came with the die set.

    How do I adjust to push the shoulder back further?

    1) Is the sizing die a FULL LENGTH die ("FL")?

    2) To puch it further back, screw the die SLIGHTLY further down in the press. Righty tighty.
     

    natdscott

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    Please check the BULLETS on the rounds that don't fit for rifling marks. If you see TWO scratches from rifling on the bullets, and they are directly hemispherically opposed to one another...your bullet is IN the rifling, and you need to seat shorter.

    Dangerous stuff there. Keep the bullet OUT of the rifling.

    -Nate
     

    Mgderf

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    Please check the BULLETS on the rounds that don't fit for rifling marks. If you see TWO scratches from rifling on the bullets, and they are directly hemispherically opposed to one another...your bullet is IN the rifling, and you need to seat shorter.

    Dangerous stuff there. Keep the bullet OUT of the rifling.

    -Nate

    That was the first thing I did.
    My over all lengths are shorter than the factory offerings, and I saw no marks on the bullets themselves.
     

    snapping turtle

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    Marlin 35 rem’s can be tricky as the round seats on the shoulder. To long it will not chamber right to short and you can get light primer strikes.

    Was the brass fired in another marlin rifle and then reloaded for yours?

    It is common for marlins to have difference in they way they were cut from year to year or maybe as machinery went a little out of tolerance. I have a 35 rem 1951 Ballard rifled marlin that is a little long in the shoulder. Brass fired from it and not brought back to size will not fire in a 1958 16 groove marlin micro groove lever. Yet my XLR marlin will fire the fire formed from the 1951 barrel fine. Ammo sized to fire out of the 1958 barrel can give An issue with light primer strikes in the 1951. Yet the XLR fire those rounds without issue of light primer strikes. Factory rounds can also have light primer strikes in the 51 but once fireformed reload without issues.

    I also ran ran into this on an old glenfield 30-30 where the owner most have reamed out the barrel to 30-30 AI and did not mark the barrel as such. Normal 30-30 ammo would work but the fireformed cases would not chamber in a 30-30. That rifle was marked AI with punches once I found out what was done. That rifle was traded off as the 35 is better than the 30-30 AI.
     

    55fairlane

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    Ok,my 2 cents.....what kind of rifle? Neck size only in fired from your gun, otherwise full leant resize all ways, you can decap,size, trim, and then (no primer) check the fit to your guns chamber.....

    Aaron
     

    Falconpuch

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    Do you have a case gauge? If you have a seat/crimp all in one die, you could be crimping to much where the neck is slightly getting crushed.
     

    Broom_jm

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    Well, that seemed to do it.
    The cases chamber anyway.

    OK, this is actually great news!

    You have determined that brass going into YOUR 35 Remington chamber must be fully sized to chamber in YOUR rifle. Adjusting your sizing die to give best case life will never be a concern, because you will need it to be all the way down, touching the shell holder and maybe just a little bit more. It's a bit surprising that you had to do this with brand new brass, but another benefit is your brass should never stretch a lot and your rounds should be consistently centered in the chamber, with no worries about excessive headspace or light primer strikes; good accuracy should result.

    If there is a downside, it's that your brass/rounds may not work well in another rifle...but that's nothing to worry about, really. Enjoy!
     

    natdscott

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    I don't completely agree Broom. IF in fact his ram is touching the shell holder, it's not a positive.

    That means the reamer may have been run into that die too far, and the die may need 0.050" or so taken off the bottom.

    -Nate
     

    Broom_jm

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    I don't completely agree Broom. IF in fact his ram is touching the shell holder, it's not a positive.

    That means the reamer may have been run into that die too far, and the die may need 0.050" or so taken off the bottom.

    -Nate

    Except...he confirmed that adjusting the die to cam over fixed the problem, which means his die and his chamber fit together perfectly.

    Now, if further testing reveals incipient head separation, or other signs of excessive headspace, your concern would be valid. I prefer a die that doesn't have to touch the shell holder, as well, but sometimes you luck out and they are an ideal match.
     

    natdscott

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    Any die that requires your press to "cam over" and begin to flex itself and/or the die lock rings is NOT acceptable.

    I know what you're saying as far as ICS and so forth, but that wasn't my point.

    It needs hit with a lathe or grinder.
     

    gmcttr

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    ...2) To puch it further back, screw the die SLIGHTLY further down in the press. Righty tighty.

    Well, that seemed to do it.
    The cases chamber anyway.

    All the OP stated was that slightly adjusting the die down fixed the problem.

    I don't find him stating anything about "cam over", "press flex" or other possible problems.
     
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