Whats different? Sizing issues

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  • Cameramonkey

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    OK, could be rando due to a limited cross section, could be something.

    I have been reloading on a Lee Pro 1000. about 6-10% of my finished rounds end up oversized at the base so that they AAAAALMOST go into battery, but not quite. and to get the gun to open requires some substantial pounding or pushing the edge of the slide on a solid object to open the action. So I bought a bulge buster, and that will size down all but the last 1-2% of those oversized rounds. So I just pitch those. These are all when I do all operations in one progression as designed.

    So on a whim I tried running the setup with everything in place, just no primers, powder, or bullets; I removed no dies. Now I'm down to 1-2%needing ANY resizing. Even the handful that were close that would recover after the bulge buster werent required to be resized. I presume those 1 or 2 shells are statistically the same ones that I just couldnt correct with the buster and there was just not helping them no matter what.

    And these are not suffering the Glock Bulge. They are just not sizing all the way to the base as far as I can tell.

    I have a solution at the moment, but would prefer not to have to cycle a shell through the press twice. Any ideas what would cause this when using the press as designed vs a size only pass first?
     

    billybob44

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    More Info??

    A lot of writing but things left out:

    I guess?? you are talking loading .40 S&W??

    My "Bulge Buster" is a Carbide Redding Gr.-X pass through die.
    I pass ALL .40 S&W's, 10 MM, and .357 Sig. cases through this die (With Lube) after the initial clean of the brass.
    Clean again, and load on a Dillon 550 as any other pistol caliber.

    There is no way, as far as I know to "Pass Through" cases and load on a progressive loader in one pull of the handle.

    ^^^This..
    Is a LOT of extra work, but I can not remember the last case problem that I have had in these calibers.

    Good luck + HAPPY Loading..Bill.
     

    Cameramonkey

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    Sorry, 9mm Luger.


    And yes, I know there is much contention with using the BB on a 9. To the point that Lee no longer directly mentions the 9 in the product description, or even that you need to use a Makarov die with it. But it works well for me.

    And it would make sense if I were removing other dies, assuming they were not dialed down correctly, preventing full stroke on the sizing die, but Im not changing any dies at all.
     

    Clay Pigeon

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    1. Do these oversize cartridges fit in a case Gauge?
    2. Are you sure it's the bottom of the case that's oversized, and not the case mouth?
    3. Are you using a taper crimp die?
     

    Cameramonkey

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    1: No.
    2: Above is how I figured out why my G19 would seize up barely out of battery. I then would compare case dimensions between good and bad cases and the base was where the bulge was.
    3: Im using the standard Lee 9mm Carbide die set.
     

    Clay Pigeon

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    I run Dillon dies in 9mm and I've never really had this problem, when sizing if I run across a case that's difficult to size because of the smile I toss it in the trash.

    I believe what I would do is make sure I'm camming over pretty hard first and if that didn't help I would grind off 15-30 thou off the bottom of your sizer die, I would most likely grind off about half of the taper before the carbide.

    If grinding doesn't work for you I would buy Lee's,
    Lee U Carbide Undersized Sizing Die in 9mm.
    Product #: 386755

    And you really should get a case gauge, it will answer questions before loading in a firearm.

    With the underside die most likely you will hourglass the brass when bullets are seated but that's the nature of a few companies 9mm carbide sizers.
    My Dillon dies will hourglass some brass exspecially when seating lead bullets.

    This seems to happen quite often with Lee shellplate loaders, I wonder if the shellplate is thicker from the brass rim to the top of the shellplate.
    It makes me wonder if you can machine some of the top of the shellplate off?

    Please keep us informed.
     

    Cameramonkey

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    Perhaps your die carrier disc is lifting/not seated. Are you getting variations in OAL as well?

    Thought about that too. No variations in OAL that I can find. I would expect the cart that was process 2 ahead of the bad case would be longer if it didnt go down all the way.

    I run Dillon dies in 9mm and I've never really had this problem, when sizing if I run across a case that's difficult to size because of the smile I toss it in the trash.

    I believe what I would do is make sure I'm camming over pretty hard first and if that didn't help I would grind off 15-30 thou off the bottom of your sizer die, I would most likely grind off about half of the taper before the carbide.

    If grinding doesn't work for you I would buy Lee's,
    Lee U Carbide Undersized Sizing Die in 9mm.
    Product #: 386755

    And you really should get a case gauge, it will answer questions before loading in a firearm.

    With the underside die most likely you will hourglass the brass when bullets are seated but that's the nature of a few companies 9mm carbide sizers.
    My Dillon dies will hourglass some brass exspecially when seating lead bullets.

    This seems to happen quite often with Lee shellplate loaders, I wonder if the shellplate is thicker from the brass rim to the top of the shellplate.
    It makes me wonder if you can machine some of the top of the shellplate off?

    Please keep us informed.

    Pro-1000s dont cam over. And I'm positive I'm going all the way down.

    Already verifying in a Lyman gauge. That is how I first figured it out, and how I started to avoid them. I now gauge every non-new brass round. Load, gauge, run the oversizes through the BB, pitch what still wont fit. Havent had a hiccup/jam at the range since.

    And I already bought an undersize die friday night. It should ship tomorrow. Great minds think alike.

    Machining is beyond my skill set. Not all of them do this, and I can prevent all but the worst simply by running them through once without the consumables before reloading, so I dont think that plate is the issue. Otherwise if it were lopsided I'd see 1/3 of them do it, or all would do it if it were just too thick.

    I just dont understand how consumables appear to play into the mix. I cant tell if they are the culprit, or if its simply the fact that running the brass through twice is what does it. And Ive started gauging the brass after the first pass sans-consumables. It appears that all but the ones that wont come clean with a BB come out fine in that first sizing pass.
    One pass: 10/100 bad, 2 of those wont be fixed with the BB. (other 8 will plunk test fine)
    Two passes: All but 2 are fine out of the gate and the BB wont fix those either. (Just like in the single pass) Statistically, it appears on the surface that 2% are hosed beyond repair, and the other 8% are fine so long as I do a sizing only pass first. But whats the difference between passes? No dies are moved to change how the sizer interfaces. Hell, I'm not even removing the powder dispenser. Its just not got anything in it to drop!
     

    Clay Pigeon

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    Thought about that too. No variations in OAL that I can find. I would expect the cart that was process 2 ahead of the bad case would be longer if it didnt go down all the way.



    Pro-1000s dont cam over. And I'm positive I'm going all the way down.

    Already verifying in a Lyman gauge. That is how I first figured it out, and how I started to avoid them. I now gauge every non-new brass round. Load, gauge, run the oversizes through the BB, pitch what still wont fit. Havent had a hiccup/jam at the range since.

    And I already bought an undersize die friday night. It should ship tomorrow. Great minds think alike.

    Machining is beyond my skill set. Not all of them do this, and I can prevent all but the worst simply by running them through once without the consumables before reloading, so I dont think that plate is the issue. Otherwise if it were lopsided I'd see 1/3 of them do it, or all would do it if it were just too thick.

    I just dont understand how consumables appear to play into the mix. I cant tell if they are the culprit, or if its simply the fact that running the brass through twice is what does it. And Ive started gauging the brass after the first pass sans-consumables. It appears that all but the ones that wont come clean with a BB come out fine in that first sizing pass.
    One pass: 10/100 bad, 2 of those wont be fixed with the BB. (other 8 will plunk test fine)
    Two passes: All but 2 are fine out of the gate and the BB wont fix those either. (Just like in the single pass) Statistically, it appears on the surface that 2% are hosed beyond repair, and the other 8% are fine so long as I do a sizing only pass first. But whats the difference between passes? No dies are moved to change how the sizer interfaces. Hell, I'm not even removing the powder dispenser. Its just not got anything in it to drop!

    Some smiles are worse than others, like I said, I just toss those and 9mm brass with a primer crimp. I'll throw a file to a die tomorrow if I remember to.
    Post your findings when this new die arrivesm.
     

    Cameramonkey

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    Some smiles are worse than others, like I said, I just toss those and 9mm brass with a primer crimp. I'll throw a file to a die tomorrow if I remember to.
    Post your findings when this new die arrivesm.
    \

    These arent Glock smiles. They are a smooth, consistent oversize at the base you cant see with the naked eye. Only a gauge or calipers reveal it.
     

    bigedp51

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    EGW Undersize Reloading Die, 9mm Luger (a modified Lee die)
    Undersize Reloading Die, 9mm Luger: EGW Gun Parts

    Our Dies are maufactured by Lee Precision.

    A must for the serious reloader: EGW offers custom designed, carbide sizing dies that are 0.003" smaller in diameter than typical dies. Not only is it smaller in diameter, but the bottom corner is also radiused which sizes the case further down. This helps prevent feed failures from cases that bulged near the base during reloading- which is typical of brass fired in Glocks and other loose chambered guns.

    The dies are made out of carbide.

    Undersized Reloading Dies will work with a Dillon Press if they are 550, 650, or 1050. They will not work if they are squared.

    70010.jpg

     

    sloughfoot

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    I have reloaded many 10's of thousands of various brass 9mm using Lee dies and a Pro 1000 press. You have not set your dies up correctly. The resizing die is not screwed in far enough to take up all the slack in the press. After this die is properly set, then adjust the other two dies. The bulge in the base has no effect since it is not inside the chamber. As long as your resizing die is adjusted properly.
     

    russc2542

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    I found with my Lee that the various dies set with the machine empty line up differently when running consumables. IE there's a few thou of flex difference when you're leading 3-4 dies vs one. I just run them down a little further, some fraction of a turn to make up for it.

    Note, I also haven't seen your problem to start with, I only noticed differing OAL back when I first got it and set it up initially: cycle one case at a time and set the OAL, start running it progressive and it's a few thousandths longer.
     

    JeepHammer

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    When I was speed gunning, I had issues with just a few cases, but that 1% in competition was enough to kill you.
    The orifice die (bulge buster) wasn't cutting it, I ran into a gadget called a 'Case Pro 100' many years ago and never looked back.
    It's big draw back is price, about $1,200 now, but 100% reliable cases.

    It rolls cases between two die plates, moving bulged brass up to the mouth, 100% straight wall cases 100% of the time.
    No need for a second sizing step, I run straight walled case right through loading without lube once they are rolled.

    Two unexpected benefits, the extraction groove/rim is restored since the die plate has a groove/rim machined into it,
    And cracked cases 'Chirp' when rolled, allowing you to cull those without going blind in hand inspection.

    Don't know if this helps, but it's been absolutely perfect for me.
    I roll almost everything now, including the 5.56 & 7.62 NATO milbrass I process since they were fired in sloppy chambers much of the time.
    Again, zero failures due to case bulge, the Case Pro restores lower cases to SAAMI or NATO specifications every time without fail, but with bottle necked brass it will need to meet the sizing die to have the shoulder moved back into SAAMI or NATO specification.

    Link: Case-Pro 100
     

    Drail

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    Most sizing dies have a flared opening which means that the very bottom of the case will not be sized down even if the die is screwed down as far as it will go. I have seen guys carefully grind off metal on the bottom of the die to remove most of that flare but you need a small amount of flare or some cases will hang up entering the die. Some companies will let you send your dies back to them and they will grind them down for you. Lee used to offer this service. Call the manufacturer who made your dies and ask. Your barrel's chamber may be on the tight side also. A couple of turns with a reamer may be all you need ( I've fixed a lot of guns with this problem that were simply short reamed) You need to do some precise careful measuring.
     
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