to give a break from the election

[cavemike]

A good friend of mine and I have been having the fast and light versus the slow and heavy discussion.
This has been going on for years.

His load is a .243 Win with a 95 gr. Hornady SST over 37.6 gr. IMR 4064

My load is a 200 gr Sierra Prohunter over 35 gr IMR 3031

Muzzle velocities are approx 2700 fps for the .243 and 1950 for the .35

On visual inspection of the target being hit at 150 yards the 35 moved the target more.

Can anyone do the figures on which one of us has the the most power on target?

 

[kirtar]

ShootersCalculator.com | Ballistic Trajectory Calculator
Assuming I entered the variables in correctly, the .243 is at about 1143 ft-lbs at 150 yards and the .35 is at 934 ft-lb.

 

[cavemike]

That is not the answer i wanted.

Any others?

 

[Usmccookie]

does this mean 9mm over .45?

 

[patience0830]

Come on. . . . We all know that speed kills.

 

[Mgderf]

Which "target" was deader?

 

[Spear Dane]

That is not the answer i wanted.

Any others?

Physics never lies.

 

[Sniper 79]

I'll take the 243 all day every day.

 

[cavemike]

I will stick to slow, heavy and old
35 rem is about 90 years, 45 acp about 100
41 mag is the younger about 60 years
in my opinion heavy and slow works

 

[55fairlane]

Slow and heavy for close stopping power.....but you do need (some) speed to go the distance.....

 

[rhino]

A good friend of mine and I have been having the fast and light versus the slow and heavy discussion.
This has been going on for years.

His load is a .243 Win with a 95 gr. Hornady SST over 37.6 gr. IMR 4064

My load is a 200 gr Sierra Prohunter over 35 gr IMR 3031

Muzzle velocities are approx 2700 fps for the .243 and 1950 for the .35

On visual inspection of the target being hit at 150 yards the 35 moved the target more.

Can anyone do the figures on which one of us has the the most power on target?

How are you defining "power"?

It's likely the at you're interested in momentum, because that is what is causing the target to move. It would be simple to determine the amount of momentum each projectile has just prior to impact because it's the product of the mass times the velocity. Unfortunately, it would be difficult to determine how much momentum is transferred to the target analytically because the collisions are inelastic and kinetic energy will not be conserved.

What you can do is this: shoot a target that is hanging freely. Observe how fast the target moves when each projectile hits. That will help you ballpark the relative amounts of momentum transferred to the target. The faster the target moves when struck, the more momentum it has received and ultimately, the more it will move. If you can find a way to observe how high it swings, you can estimate even better.

 

[kirtar]

Momentum is still conserved in inelastic collisions.

 

[cavemike]

From my observation, when my friend hit the the target it barely moved, when i hit the target there was an easily observable hit, the gong swung.
We where shooting at an 8 x 12 inch quarter inch plate at 147 yards.
The whole reason for this is the difference in the amount of movement of a free hanging plate with good hits with each caliber

 

[rhino]

Momentum is still conserved in inelastic collisions.

Correct. That's why observing the plate movement is meaningful.

You could also put a chronograph downrange to measure the velocity at the same distance, which I should have mentioned (although it's a recipe for needing a new chrono after a few shots). But knowing the magnitude of the momentum doesn't provide the same kind of visual "Oh! I see!" reaction as does see how far the plates are displaced.

In fact, swinging plates are a way bullet velocity used to be measured prior to chronographs.

 

[rhino]

From my observation, when my friend hit the the target it barely moved, when i hit the target there was an easily observable hit, the gong swung.
We where shooting at an 8 x 12 inch quarter inch plate at 147 yards.
The whole reason for this is the difference in the amount of movement of a free hanging plate with good hits with each caliber

That's your demonstration that you need to focus on. You're observing the effects of momentum transfer.

Penetration is heavily dependent on momentum. Momentum is the product of mass x velocity

When a projectile hits flesh, it starts to slow down. If a light projectile that was moving really fast at impact starts to slow, it loses momentum very quickly and tends to penetrate less. A heavier projectile's momentum is more due to its mass than its velocity, so it retains more momentum even after slowing the same amount and thus tends to penetrate further. That's why when hunting big, dangerous game, heavy bullets are favored because they will tend to penetrate more.

 

[JeepHammer]

Good conversation, but I didn't need a break from the election, I simply voted.
What I need a break from is the endless idiotic advertisments for/against the candidates...
My junk mail should reduce by about 50% until the next election cycle, and I won't have to mute the TV 50 times during a 1 hour show...

When are they going to put a 'No Confidence' or 'None Of The Above' box on the ballots?

 

[Usmccookie]

Good conversation, but I didn't need a break from the election, I simply voted.
What I need a break from is the endless idiotic advertisments for/against the candidates...
My junk mail should reduce by about 50% until the next election cycle, and I won't have to mute the TV 50 times during a 1 hour show...

When are they going to put a 'No Confidence' or 'None Of The Above' box on the ballots?

Lol never, sadly

 

[cavemike]

The start of this whole thing between my friend and I was my observation of the movement of the plate.
i am confident of a complete pass through with my load. I also kind of think my friends load do also.
I know that I would not be on the receiving of either.

 

[cavemike]

As far as thee politics goes
Screw them all, good riddance to the ads
I just want to be left alone

 

[rhino]

The start of this whole thing between my friend and I was my observation of the movement of the plate.
i am confident of a complete pass through with my load. I also kind of think my friends load do also.
I know that I would not be on the receiving of either.

If you really, really want the best idea of what will happen (aside from necropsies of animals), make some properly calibrated gelatin blocks and shoot them. You'll see a good estimation of the penetration as well as the effects of what the energy of a high speed rifle bullet does to make big holes.