.38 Special Load

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  • Doublehelix

    Master
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    Jun 20, 2015
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    Westfield
    I searched the forum and found some good information, but thought I would start a new updated thread to get some specific advice for anyone who is willing to share.

    I just picked up my first revolver, so now I have to add another caliber to my loading routine. It is a S&W 686 with a 6" barrel. I am going to stick with .38 spl for now, and these loads will be mostly for paper punching. I have no intention of competing or hunting with the gun, and it is way too large (for me) to carry, so no worries about SD loads.

    I ordered some Black Bullets (coated lead) because I really like their products and use them in my .40 competition gun all the time:

    https://shop.blackbulletsinternational.com/38-160gr-2800-38-160-2800QTY.htm?categoryId=1

    These are 160 gr (odd weight) and .358" in diameter with a round nose. I will probably look for some SWC bullets later. Any good recommendations? I do love SWC's in my .45's, and Black Bullets does make some .45 SWCs (but not .38, which sucks). Are others shooting RN bullets in their .38 loads? Most of the posts on here talked about WC or SWC loads.

    From looking at the Hodgdon site, they show loads at 1.455" COAL. I have read that most people load to the cannelure and roll crimp into the groove. Yes? How can you check COAL with a revolver? There is no way to do a plunk test with a revolver is there? I notice that no one seems to make case gauges for .38 special. Not needed???

    Powders:
    I have a ton of HP-38/W231 which is probably a good place to start, but I also see TiteGroup loads as well as WST and Bullseye (I have plenty of those 3 powders as well). There were some posts on here that talked about the TG loads being the dirtiest and with the most perceived recoil. I will probably start with some HP-38/W231 loads and see where I get. Is it even worth it to work up any WST or Bullseye loads?

    It is probably smart to start with the HP-38 with these RN bullets, and then maybe work out some loads later with SWC bullets to see what the gun prefers.

    I also read somewhere that it is common to trim .38 spc brass to get a consistent length which makes for better roll crimps. Is that true? Ugh. Lots of extra work like rifle rounds. I would rather not, but if I have to, I guess I can. My Giraud trimmer only works with rifle calibers, so I would have to go back to the dark ages and use my old Hornady crank trimmer!!! Nooooooooooooo...

    Anything else I need to watch out for? Tips/tricks?
     
    Last edited:

    Wolfhound

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    Apr 11, 2011
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    I will let someone else address the specific questions.

    I load 21 calibers and find 38 special to be the cheapest, easiest and most forgiving to reload. You really have to work hard to mess up a 38 special reload. Unless you overcharge it or double charge it. The case does have a lot of extra space like a 45 long colt.
     
    Last edited:

    JHB

    Sharpshooter
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    Oct 7, 2016
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    Columbus
    I have loaded 38s for 45 years and never trimmed a case. Don't know anyone that trim pistol brass.

    You have a good selection of powder on hand. Use starting loads and work your way up if you want more velocity. Data for 158G should be ok.

    Crimp in the crimp groove don't worry about OAL as long as it doesn't protrude out the front font of the cylinder.

    I like Bayou bullets. Good prices and delivery.

    A good reloading manual will help you immensely they have a lot of info not just loading recipes.

    I load my 357 cases at 38 power levels. This way you don't have to clean that carbon ring that builds up from the shorter 38 cases. Yea I am lazy that way.

    Enjoy your 686-6 I love mine.
     

    t-squared

    Master
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    HP-38, Bullseye, and AA#2 have worked the best for me in my 38 Special loads. Titegroup burns hot and can cause damage to the coating which can lead to leading.

    Most revolver bullets will have a crimp groove so OAL is kinda already figured out for you.

    It seems most target loads are either the 148 wadcutter, either hollow base or double-ended, or the 158 semi wadcutter.

    One thing I've found is that for light target loads a roll crimp isn't really needed. In fact, I get better groups by using a taper crimp.
     

    Doublehelix

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    Jun 20, 2015
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    Westfield
    HP-38, Bullseye, and AA#2 have worked the best for me in my 38 Special loads. Titegroup burns hot and can cause damage to the coating which can lead to leading.

    Yeah, I was leaning away from TG, so this helps solidify my decisions.

    Most revolver bullets will have a crimp groove so OAL is kinda already figured out for you.

    That is what I figured, makes it easy.

    It seems most target loads are either the 148 wadcutter, either hollow base or double-ended, or the 158 semi wadcutter.

    What is what I have found as well. I was hoping to find someone what has shot some of the RN bullets and has some feedback.

    One thing I've found is that for light target loads a roll crimp isn't really needed. In fact, I get better groups by using a taper crimp.

    Interesting. The Dillon .38 crimp die has a feature they call "Accu-crimp" which gives a taper crimp when adjusted lightly, and more of a roll crimp when used more aggressively. Not sure if that design works well or not, but I ordered one to find out.
     

    OHOIAN

    Marksman
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    Jul 20, 2014
    157
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    NE OHIO
    For target shooting I do not like the way RN bullets rip the target, and much prefer WC and SWC for the nice round holes they make. RN and RNFP are best for cowboy action shooting and even then mostly just for nostalgia and the looks in ammo belts. You can use data for 158g RN for your 160g RN, that 2g is not going to make a huge difference. You have great powders, you just need to find the load(s) that you and your gun like the most.
     

    t-squared

    Master
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    Interesting. The Dillon .38 crimp die has a feature they call "Accu-crimp" which gives a taper crimp when adjusted lightly, and more of a roll crimp when used more aggressively. Not sure if that design works well or not, but I ordered one to find out.[/QUOTE]

    That sounds a lot like how the Redding Profile Crimp die works. Just removing the flare seems to be all a light "target" load needs, while heavier +P or Magnum loads will need the roll crimp to prevent bullet pull.
     

    Bosshoss

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    Dec 11, 2009
    2,560
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    MADISON
    I searched the forum and found some good information, but thought I would start a new updated thread to get some specific advice for anyone who is willing to share.

    I just picked up my first revolver, so now I have to add another caliber to my loading routine. It is a S&W 686 with a 6" barrel. I am going to stick with .38 spl for now, and these loads will be mostly for paper punching. I have no intention of competing or hunting with the gun, and it is way too large (for me) to carry, so no worries about SD loads.

    I ordered some Black Bullets (coated lead) because I really like their products and use them in my .40 competition gun all the time:

    https://shop.blackbulletsinternational.com/38-160gr-2800-38-160-2800QTY.htm?categoryId=1

    These are 160 gr (odd weight) and .358" in diameter with a round nose. I will probably look for some SWC bullets later. Any good recommendations? I do love SWC's in my .45's, and Black Bullets does make some .45 SWCs (but not .38, which sucks). Are others shooting RN bullets in their .38 loads? Most of the posts on here talked about WC or SWC loads.

    From looking at the Hodgdon site, they show loads at 1.455" COAL. I have read that most people load to the cannelure and roll crimp into the groove. Yes? How can you check COAL with a revolver? There is no way to do a plunk test with a revolver is there? I notice that no one seems to make case gauges for .38 special. Not needed???

    Powders:
    I have a ton of HP-38/W231 which is probably a good place to start, but I also see TiteGroup loads as well as WST and Bullseye (I have plenty of those 3 powders as well). There were some posts on here that talked about the TG loads being the dirtiest and with the most perceived recoil. I will probably start with some HP-38/W231 loads and see where I get. Is it even worth it to work up any WST or Bullseye loads?

    It is probably smart to start with the HP-38 with these RN bullets, and then maybe work out some loads later with SWC bullets to see what the gun prefers.

    I also read somewhere that it is common to trim .38 spc brass to get a consistent length which makes for better roll crimps. Is that true? Ugh. Lots of extra work like rifle rounds. I would rather not, but if I have to, I guess I can. My Giraud trimmer only works with rifle calibers, so I would have to go back to the dark ages and use my old Hornady crank trimmer!!! Nooooooooooooo...

    Anything else I need to watch out for? Tips/tricks?

    The revolver is a very efficient bullet puller.
    With the coated bullets you have to have enough crimp that the bullets won't creep out under recoil and yet not cut thru the coating on the bullets. Start with a light crimp and shoot 6 of the 7 in the cylinder and check the 7th one to see if the OAL has changed. Adjust as needed to stop the bullets from creeping.
    Bullet shape isn't that important IMO. I had a Ransom rest several years ago and testing showed little to any accuracy difference between bullet shapes(some guns might prefer one over the other but my testing never never showed much difference) . The wadcutters made nice clean holes in the target and that is why most used that shape in accuracy games. Keep in mind the HBWC and DEWC wadcutters are usually swaged and not cast and will lead the barrel if driven very fast.

    Powders that work are many and everyone has a favorite.
    The big thing is finding a clean powder even if you are not shooting competition a dirty powder will suck the fun right out of a nice range day.
    The thing I have found is when finding a load is stay closer to a max load for that powder. Loads at the lower end of that powders range tends to leave unburned powder in the gun and it will get under the extractor and the gun will be hard to load and close and the trigger pull will go up.

    The powders you listed I have used before are Titegroup and WST and both are clean burning in a revolver with the right loads.
    Bullseye used to be dirty but I heard they reformulated it a few years back so I can't really say on it.
    I can tell when a gun comes in the shop if the owner is using 231 the gun usually has powder residue everywhere inside the gun and is a pain to clean up before working on it. I tried it years ago and I had to clean the gun between every stage and it was still difficult to get through a 32 round course of fire with out problems. I sure that some out there are using it with success but I'm skeptical. If they are just plinking or shooting 50 rounds maybe.

    I have used a lot of Clays and it works great but I haven't used it in 38 specials for a long time.( I don't shoot much 38 special anymore as my guns are 38 Super and when I do shoot a 38/357 gun I usually use 38 short colt in them)

    With a clean powder I have no doubt that a revolver will go 2000+ rounds without touching it. I know mine will.
    Again I'm shooting competition so I shoot a lot more than most people. What I find unacceptable many wouldn't have a problem with.
     

    mssmith44

    Marksman
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    0   0   0
    Dec 21, 2011
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    Glad to see you have a wheel gun now. If you brought it to a steel match, you would find out how much you like shooting them.
    I like the round nose bullets. The one that you have doesn't have a crimp groove. A light taper crimp is all that is needed. Too much
    crimp affects accuracy. With light loads, it is less likely to have bullets pulled out of the case.
    Some 38 cases can be a problem. WCC cases are military and are thicker walls.
    Americ are to be avoided as well.

    I have used a lot of WST for certain loads. For your bullet 3.5 to 4.0 grains is a good load.
    For some reason I like bullseye for most of my loads now.
    This new powder Sport Pistol looks like Bullseye but I haven't loaded it in 38 special loads yet.
    It is supposed to be good for coated bullets.
    The best approach is to load up a bunch and start blasting.
     

    singlesix

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    May 13, 2008
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    HP-38, Bullseye, and AA#2 have worked the best for me in my 38 Special loads. Titegroup burns hot and can cause damage to the coating which can lead to leading.
    Interesting, I see on the burn charts that Bullseye is faster burner than Titegroup. I do agree that TG burns hot, my gun gets almost too hot to handle when I shoot a long string for steel or FNS.
     

    VERT

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    Jan 4, 2009
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    Stick with HP-38 and Bullseye. My dad loads .38 for USPSA and uses 160 grain SNS. COAL is 1.5" 3.7 grains Bullseye is his preferred load. 4.6 grain of HP-38

    **Disclaimer, disclaimer, yada, yada.
     

    t-squared

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    Interesting, I see on the burn charts that Bullseye is faster burner than Titegroup. I do agree that TG burns hot, my gun gets almost too hot to handle when I shoot a long string for steel or FNS.

    While I've reloaded a decent amount of coated bullets, I've personally never had a leading issue with ANY powder I've tried, even Titegroup. However, Precision recommends against using it.....https://precisionbullets.com/2017/11/14/reloading-powders/.... and SNS also brings up possible issues with the "faster, hotter" powders...https://www.snscasting.com/. :dunno:
     

    VERT

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    Jan 4, 2009
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    While I've reloaded a decent amount of coated bullets, I've personally never had a leading issue with ANY powder I've tried, even Titegroup. However, Precision recommends against using it.....https://precisionbullets.com/2017/11/14/reloading-powders/.... and SNS also brings up possible issues with the "faster, hotter" powders...https://www.snscasting.com/. :dunno:

    Dad and I have shot cases of coated bullets. HP-38, Clays and Bullseye all work good. I think a lot of guys also burn WST in the autos. We could not make power factor with Clays in .38 spl.
     

    singlesix

    Grandmaster
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    May 13, 2008
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    I load Hi-Tel Coated Bullets over TG and haven't had any issues, many shooting forums report the same observation. YMMV. Back on the main topic, wheel guns are FUN. Something about shooting a wheel gun...
     

    BE Mike

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    I've loaded thousands of .38 SPL rounds with Bullseye and it works great. Lately, I've been loading some with HP-38 and I really like the way it throws from the powder measure. I've used Power Pistol for hot jacketed loads and Unique for medium to warm cast lead bullets. I'd bet that Bullseye, HP-38 (WW 231) and Uniques have been used more than any other powders to load .38 SPL cartridges with lead bullets. Like another poster said, there is no reason to trim .38 SPL brass.
     
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