Reloading for your AR-15 platform rifle? Here's you geek moment for the week

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  • indyjohn

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    Reloading for your AR-15 platform rifle? Here's your geek moment for the week

    A very well done video.

    [video=youtube_share;VCS4fXFmCyA]https://youtu.be/VCS4fXFmCyA[/video]
     
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    ru44mag

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    My plan, if I ever start reloading .223/5.56 was just not sort brass, but load it all to .223 specs. This guy says load 5.56 to 5.56 specs. So if I do as planned, am I at risk?
     

    natdscott

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    My plan, if I ever start reloading .223/5.56 was just not sort brass, but load it all to .223 specs. This guy says load 5.56 to 5.56 specs. So if I do as planned, am I at risk?

    Not due to the stated load...but unless you have some strain gauges handy, you really can't know where you are with regards to pressure.

    And uh. Using range pickup, etc...especially unsorted, IS a recipe for trouble.
     

    indyjohn

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    If you give the video a chance an pay attention all the way through, it makes the dos and don't very clear.

    One topic it didn't get into is case sectional thickness from maker to maker. There is one short segment you can see the difference in base thickness.
     

    bigedp51

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    The European CIP considers the .223 and 5.56 to be the same cartridge and use different pressure taking methods. The major differences between the .223 and 5.56 are the twist rate and throat length.

    Almost all military rifles have a slightly different chamber but a M1 Garand is still a 30-06. "BUT" when we adopted a NATO standard for ammunition we use metric designation for the case and use the European pressure taking methods.

    The .223 and the M193 5.56 are loaded to the same U.S. standard of 55,000 psi but the newer M855 5.56 ammunition is loaded to 58,700 psi. And when the M855 military ammunition came out is when the SAAMI issued the interchangeability warning between the .223 and 5.56.

    I have a Savage bolt action .223 with a 1in9 twist that has a longer throat than my AR15 rifles. And I can load this rifle warmer than the .223 loading data for short throated .223 rifles with a 1in1M855 4 or 1in12 twist barrels.

    Lake City 5.56 cases are made of harder brass to to ensure extraction in full automatic weapons. And this was just one of the changes that happened after the 1968 Congressional hearings on the M16 rifles jamming problems.

    How Hard is Your Brass? 5.56 and .223 Rem Base Hardness Tests « Daily Bulletin

    brasstest03.png



    Bottom line the pressures will be higher if you fire military M855 5.56 ammo in a short throated .223 rifle.

    barnes-pressure.png


    The older M193 was loaded to 55,000 psi and the same max pressure as the .223. But the M855 is loaded to 58,700 psi and will cause pressure spikes in short throated .223 rifles.

    Below the older M193 5.56 ammunition was loaded to 55,000 psi using American SAAMI standards.

    m855specs.jpg


    Don't be confused by the military metric designations for NATO ammunition. Its like your speedometer in your car when you are doing 60 mph you are also doing 100 kph but its the same speed.
     

    Disposable Heart

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    The European CIP considers the .223 and 5.56 to be the same cartridge and use different pressure taking methods. The major differences between the .223 and 5.56 are the twist rate and throat length.

    Almost all military rifles have a slightly different chamber but a M1 Garand is still a 30-06. "BUT" when we adopted a NATO standard for ammunition we use metric designation for the case and use the European pressure taking methods.

    The .223 and the M193 5.56 are loaded to the same U.S. standard of 55,000 psi but the newer M855 5.56 ammunition is loaded to 58,700 psi. And when the M855 military ammunition came out is when the SAAMI issued the interchangeability warning between the .223 and 5.56.

    I have a Savage bolt action .223 with a 1in9 twist that has a longer throat than my AR15 rifles. And I can load this rifle warmer than the .223 loading data for short throated .223 rifles with a 1in1M855 4 or 1in12 twist barrels.

    Lake City 5.56 cases are made of harder brass to to ensure extraction in full automatic weapons. And this was just one of the changes that happened after the 1968 Congressional hearings on the M16 rifles jamming problems.

    How Hard is Your Brass? 5.56 and .223 Rem Base Hardness Tests « Daily Bulletin

    brasstest03.png



    Bottom line the pressures will be higher if you fire military M855 5.56 ammo in a short throated .223 rifle.

    barnes-pressure.png


    The older M193 was loaded to 55,000 psi and the same max pressure as the .223. But the M855 is loaded to 58,700 psi and will cause pressure spikes in short throated .223 rifles.

    Below the older M193 5.56 ammunition was loaded to 55,000 psi using American SAAMI standards.

    m855specs.jpg


    Don't be confused by the military metric designations for NATO ammunition. Its like your speedometer in your car when you are doing 60 mph you are also doing 100 kph but its the same speed.

    Awesome post. Just wait for high pressure spikes when folks 'accidentally' start getting M855A1 in their bulk packs of M855, which has happened before.

    "Why'd my Bear Creek AR blow up?" :D
     

    Disposable Heart

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    Not due to the stated load...but unless you have some strain gauges handy, you really can't know where you are with regards to pressure.

    And uh. Using range pickup, etc...especially unsorted, IS a recipe for trouble.

    This 100%. I can't tell you how many people I've seen break or lock up their guns chasing M193, M855 or Mk262 (BIG culprit of damaged guns) velocity, and for what? That extra 50-100 fps isn't going to increase the lethality of the round, nor give it extra range. 5.56 craps out at the same distance and you're adding inaccuracy and possible pressure spikes by chasing it.

    Lake City and Olin have entire teams and manufacturing methods to tailor the loads, wall thicknesses, component weights/consistency, primers and powder to make the pressure and velocity as called out by milspec. Their powder is made by the hopper full by chemical engineers and tailored for the exact situation. Johnny Handloader at home with a can of H335, some Hornady 55gr FMJBT, range pickup brass and some load data he found online is either going to be disappointed in his results (not the same velo), fishing out popped primers, or going onto the internet to complain how his BCA barrel banana peeled on him...

    We've started to see what happens when even a company gets it wrong: Lake City makes the Frontier series of ammo for Hornady. They are using LC brass (thick), probably the same powder charge they use for M193 or M855 and has a similar weight component bullet from the Big H on top. Problem is, those powder formulations are designed for LC/ATK brand and manufacture 55gr FMJBT, not the thicker jacketed, more uniform Hornady component. We've seen popped primers and damaged guns from that stuff and people insist on shooting it (or 'hey, look at this link for a company selling it by the barrel load for 1.3x what you can get Federal M193 fer')

    Look guys, end of the day, we aren't hindered by laws of warfare (even our COUNTRY isn't, we didn't sign or back anything). We aren't limited to inaccurate milsurp ammo. Sure, it's cheap. There's a reason for that. It's mass produced, Mcdonalds ammo. Fills you up, does the job, but heaven help you if you get a cholesterol test. :D Handloading is best served to reduce the price of quality ammo, making loads that are most accurate for you (not the fastest or replicating inaccurate ammo). Why should I pay $50 a box of 50 for MK262 when I can load a 77gr Sierra Matchking to slightly lower velocity and blow the factory load's doors off in the accuracy department. Sure, Mk 262 is great ammo, but I can load it cheaper, less strain on the gun and more accurately. Heck, I've loaded pulled M855 and with some careful sorting, I got a solid 2MOA load out of it, as compared to the 4MOA that it typically gets. Stow the 'milspec' stuff for when you need waterproof ammo. Oh, by the way: You can waterproof ammo with clear nailpolish. :D
     
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    NKBJ

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    5.56 is a cute little miniature round but the small size means small changes can be proportionally pretty large.
    That has prompted people to weight brass trying to check for thinner and thicker walls with some surprising results.
     

    JeepHammer

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    'Throat Length' is called Free Bore when designing a chamber.
    That distance allows the bullet to increase velocity before hitting the rifling.
    A bullet up against the rifling can drive pressures way up before it can deform to the bore/rifling.

    A faster twist rate barrel can drive pressures up also, like fine threads on a bolt.

    Since 2012, ATK/Federal which operates the Lake City Army ammo plant, got the standards changed. The 5.56 and .223 specifications became exactly the same as .223
    This was because of two wars raging, and a 3.2 Billion round homeland security order, the federal & General Dynamics plants could produce both military & civilian cases off the same machines.
    (we all remember the ammo shortage)

    It was sold to the militaty as a weight reduction measure, reducing battle loadout weight for war fighters.
     

    BiscuitsandGravy

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    Yes. I will always gladly give up FPS for accuracy. I don't need 3000fps if I can get them in a 1" group or preferably less albeit a bit slower to match the rifle. Its less rough on gear and is much more fun. I don't like flat primers let alone popped primers. Ouch. No fun.

    :ingo:
     

    Hohn

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    I'm ok with using mixed brass for reloading 5.5.6 as long as I'm parked about at the starting charge weights with slower powder. I think trying to homebrew MK262 spec ammo in mixed brass is a recipe for disaster.

    I've just received 500 rounds of new Wolf Gold cases already primed. This will eliminate much of the brass variation I'll encounter, so I intend to do my development in Wolf Gold.


    The very reasonable cost of the primed new Wolf Brass is SO worth it to me to not have to process or so. Buying processed brass I usually see about a dime a case. The Wolf Gold is 13 cents a case WITH PRIMER. And new.

    Add the cost of a CCI41 to each used case, and the wolf is cheaper.

    And new.

    Did I mention it's NEW brass for cheaper than once-fired?
     
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