Seriously wimpy, slow loads!

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  • Ark

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    I finally got around to picking up a chronograph and went out to do some testing on a bunch of my loads. Mildly overcast, 35 degrees, windy conditions. I got some seriously hinky readings and I'd like to see if anyone has some input.


    My .38 special load is a 158gn plated round nose bullet with 4.0gn of HP-38. This is already a hair over the Lee manual's max of 3.7. Chronographed, I'm only getting about 500 fps, fired out of a 4" barrel. The manual claims this is good for about 800 fps.


    Similarly, my .45 ACP load is a 230gn plated round nose bullet with 5.0gn of HP-38. 5.3 is the Lee max. I'm getting about 625 fps out of a 4.5" USP45 barrel, compared to the manual's claim of over 800 fps.


    Why are my loads, already up against the manual's maximum, coming out over 25% slower than spec? I had individual .38 rounds as low as 435 fps. I could practically catch that in my hand.
     
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    rosejm

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    Verified the powder throw recently?
    Dunno if the chrono could be affected by the wind... could it be out of calibration? Low battery?

    I'd try a known good chrono before messing too much with the recipe. I would think you'd notice a difference in recoil with that much velocity loss.
     

    Ark

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    New out of the box chrono with a fresh battery. Tune the powder throw before each session with an electronic scale, spot check once or twice in 50 rounds. Nothing seems to stand out as a problem.

    Wish I had a known good chrono sitting around, the entire reason I shelled out money to buy one was lack of access to anyone else's.
     

    bwframe

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    Some crono's require full sunshine or additional lighting to accurately work.

    I'd give your crono a chance to work with full sun, close to overhead, before writing it off.
     

    44fire

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    I am wanting to try this same load. The Lee manual shows HP-38 and Win 231(which I'm told are the same) as 3.1-3.7gr. for 158gr lead bullet @ 834fps . The Hornady manual has Win 231 as 3.2-4.4 gr and a 158gr LRN bullet with 4.1 at 800fps. Are these bullets comparable for the printed data? I read several others stating they use a 4.2 gr load. for plated bullets.
     

    lovemywoods

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    Hello Ark.

    You're getting some good feedback.

    I wanted to mention something while I read your post.

    You said you were using plated bullets. My recollection is that folks like Berry's Bullets recommend loading plated bullets in the lower half of the recommended powder range. In your post, they were loaded near the upper portion of the powder range. Just something you might want to check into.

    Happy reloading!

    LMW
     

    bobjones223

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    I know nothing of your experience level and dealing with chrono's but as someone who "NEVER" reads directions (me) can attest I would start there.

    Like I said everything you did may be right but when I started using mine I had the chrono to close to the end of the barrel wanting to make sure I didn't accidentally smoke my new toy/tool. This resulted in some "funny" numbers that made me question my loads.:twocents:
     

    mssmith44

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    My chrono results with 4.5grain 231 were 864fps average with a 6 inch barrel.
    230 grain 45 with 4.5grain 231 was 679.
    I think the amount of light on your skyscreens is the problem.
    try a 22 pistol or rifle should get about 1050 pistol 1250 for rifle.
     

    bwframe

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    Too much or too little? Do I need to reserve my chrono days for blazing sun with no clouds?

    Maybe. The age of the chrono and capability of the processor could have an effect also. IE, newer and more expensive processors are less affected by light level.

    The crono works by reading the shadow your bullet casts as it goes through the screen/trigger assemblies.
     

    EyeCarry

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    Ok, no one has asked ARK. Which brand of chrony do you have ARK? I have a Caldwell and have had good results. (if you're going to shoot a chrony, might as well be a cheap one I say). I have used it on cloudy days and where I shoot at home it is under tree branches but it still picks up the shot. I suspect your chrony. We might be able to get together for side by side results. (Don't shoot mine, Bro)
     

    mssmith44

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    One thing that helped on my Chrono (PACT) was white translucent plastic above the photo sensors
    That makes the light more uniform. My chrono has separate sensors from the readout device.
    Without the plastic mine had better results on cloudy days. Bright sun with a clear sky was a problem.
     

    Ark

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    Ok, no one has asked ARK. Which brand of chrony do you have ARK? I have a Caldwell and have had good results. (if you're going to shoot a chrony, might as well be a cheap one I say). I have used it on cloudy days and where I shoot at home it is under tree branches but it still picks up the shot. I suspect your chrony. We might be able to get together for side by side results. (Don't shoot mine, Bro)

    Caldwell, new out of the box, purchased in December.
     

    gmcttr

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    I know nothing of your experience level and dealing with chrono's but as someone who "NEVER" reads directions (me) can attest I would start there.

    Like I said everything you did may be right but when I started using mine I had the chrono to close to the end of the barrel wanting to make sure I didn't accidentally smoke my new toy/tool. This resulted in some "funny" numbers that made me question my loads.:twocents:

    Begs the question...how close did you have the chrono to the end of the barrel? As stated, too close will screw up the results.

    I typically use the sky screens on clear and cloudy days.

    Fluorescent lights indoors will also screw up the results.
     

    Ark

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    About 15 feet, close to the end of the cable for the phone.

    Went out for more testing today. Another sorta overcast day. Used the phone app this time, plus the sun shades as before.

    45 acp with 230gn plated and 5.0gn HP-38 returned 743 fps, minimum 709 and max 779 over 10 shots. That's over 100 fps faster on average than last time. 44 mag with 240gn plated and 10.0gn HP38 out of a rifle barrel was 1,311, min 1,259 and max 1,359 over five shots. Did not bring the .38s out.

    These results are a little more encouraging. The .44s are about 190 fps slower than factory loads out of that gun, but are 1.0gn shy of the Lee manual's max, and the max velocity listed in the book is only around 1,360 (revolver barrel, I assume). So that's satisfactory for target ammo. I also chrono'd some Turkish 8mm at a little over 2,800, which is very close to what the interwebs says to expect of that ammo. I dunno, maybe running the phone app changed something? Questionable batch of ammo last time? Just bad weather?

    For these two loads I do not see a compelling reason to jack up the charge at this time.
     

    russc2542

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    Something else to consider... did the rounds FEEL that wimpy? at the max load the recoil ought to be noticeable, if it really were HALF what it should be, you'd notice and the semi-auto probably wouldn't cycle.
     
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