Duplicating a commercial round

[Notalentbum]

I have found a round my Savage .223 bolt rifle loves. I just hate paying a $1 a round for .223 and thought I’d try to duplicate it. I’ve got a fair supply of fire formed cases and can easily buy the projectiles. I can also load to same OAL.
I was wondering if I was to use my preferred powder and load to get the same velocities, would that give me the accuracy that the commercial round does or are there still too many variables involved?

Matt

 

[Hop]

 

[bstewrat3]

Too many variables. Powders all have different pressure curves, which may or may not result in comparable accuracy at the same velocity. Experiment with it and I'm sure you'll find a suitable load.

 

[88E30M50]

I’ve done something similar using QuickLoad. Once you have identified the bullet used, you should be able to find a couple of powders that put you into the velocity range. If you have a chronograph, you can get real numbers on the favored ammo and then try different powders and loads to see if you can replicate it.

I do that with .40 HSTs. I can’t afford to plink with HSTs but found that the Xtreme plated 180g bullets have a very similar profile. A load I developed that uses Power Pistol loaded to the same OAL feels about the same as an HST and should chrono to within 50fps or so of the HST. I’ll break the chrono out when it warms up a bit to verify but until then, the HST like loads give me a good practice round that feels just like the HST does for a fraction of the price of HSTs.

 

[Hop]

Is there any benifit to pulling a bullet and looking at the powder? Can that tip you off as to what type/brand might have been used?

I am not a reloader but am interested in gathering data from a few loads hence the popcorn smilie above. 124 grain 9mm S&B for some reason shoots one hole groups from one of my guns. Far more accurate than anything else I've tried & I'm not real sure why. There's also a couple of 223/5.56 rifle rounds that work very well in a few of my rifles.

 

[42769vette]

Is there any benifit to pulling a bullet and looking at the powder? Can that tip you off as to what type/brand might have been used?

I am not a reloader but am interested in gathering data from a few loads hence the popcorn smilie above. 124 grain 9mm S&B for some reason shoots one hole groups from one of my guns. Far more accurate than anything else I've tried & I'm not real sure why. There's also a couple of 223/5.56 rifle rounds that work very well in a few of my rifles.

You wont be able to look at a powder and know.

 

[JHB]

A lot of times factory ammo does not contain canister powder that we purchase from stores. Every reloading manual I have read states that and I have read a lot of manuals.

 

[Disposable Heart]

Is there any benifit to pulling a bullet and looking at the powder? Can that tip you off as to what type/brand might have been used?

I am not a reloader but am interested in gathering data from a few loads hence the popcorn smilie above. 124 grain 9mm S&B for some reason shoots one hole groups from one of my guns. Far more accurate than anything else I've tried & I'm not real sure why. There's also a couple of 223/5.56 rifle rounds that work very well in a few of my rifles.

Absolutely not. Commercial ammo uses powder that is not 'off the shelf' like we buy. It is a batch made, vat load affair that has been tested in their labs for a specific burn rate, pressure curve and other characteristics for the load the firm is trying to make and in no way is replicated as a powder we can buy. Once in a blue moon, you can buy pull down powder (in the past it was WC866 for 5.56 NATO and very old H110 for M1 Carbines) but even then there are a lot of variables to still be contended with.

For the OP, reloading opens a whole new world for you. Replicating OAL, 'using the same bullet' etc... will not get you the accuracy you want without knowing the EXACT neck tension, primer and case combination, weighing cases, etc... Using a good, quality powder that is a known good in the caliber, you will be best served to load up a variety of rounds at differing charge weights, OALs and see what works well in your rifle. It would not surprise me to hear you state that you found a load MORE accurate than the commercial loading you like. Once you get your powder, neck tension, OAL, primer and case combination down pat, settle in and make a few hundred to a thousand of them for a rainy day and call it good.

"Match" ammo doesn't have to mean it's for a match. "Match" to handloaders means you've "matched" the load to the rifle or handgun. The load that works well with someone elses' rifle may not work as well in yours, even if they are the same model.

 

[Notalentbum]

Is there any benifit to pulling a bullet and looking at the powder? Can that tip you off as to what type/brand might have been used?

I am not a reloader but am interested in gathering data from a few loads hence the popcorn smilie above. 124 grain 9mm S&B for some reason shoots one hole groups from one of my guns. Far more accurate than anything else I've tried & I'm not real sure why. There's also a couple of 223/5.56 rifle rounds that work very well in a few of my rifles.

I’ve thought about looking at the powder but I’ve only worked with maybe four powders that would be suitable. There are probably quite a few more that I’ve never seen.
For the record, what I want to duplicate is a 75gr Hornady round that has code 8026 on the box. Last summer I bought about 14 different boxes of 223 match ammo and set up at Deer Creek range to test them all. I was amazed at the differences between loads. Hornady’s Superformance 73gr match wouldn’t group within 3” at 100yds. This 8026 stuff was a single ragged hole at 100yds.
The picture was a group shot at 275yds.

Matt

 

[Disposable Heart]

I’ve thought about looking at the powder but I’ve only worked with maybe four powders that would be suitable. There are probably quite a few more that I’ve never seen.
For the record, what I want to duplicate is a 75gr Hornady round that has code 8026 on the box. Last summer I bought about 14 different boxes of 223 match ammo and set up at Deer Creek range to test them all. I was amazed at the differences between loads. Hornady’s Superformance 73gr match wouldn’t group within 3” at 100yds. This 8026 stuff was a single ragged hole at 100yds.
The picture was a group shot at 275yds.

Matt

Hornady factory 75gr "Match" stuff is very good for the price and a great off the shelf ammo. Unless you are setting up the reloading for the most absolute precision load you can, hobbyist or volume loaders won't give you much more of an advantage handloading compared to that round. What you might try is RE-15 powder, good doses, try a variety of OAL and charges and get a load with that component bullet that works similarly for you. Uniform and weigh cases, uniform the headstamps and sort accordingly.

On another side note: You can even try a different component, say the Sierra non-cannelure 77gr Match King or 69gr version as well, maybe even the Nosler Custom Competition non-cannelure 77 and 69grainers. I have yet to have any success with the Hornday 68g, even if my rifle likes their 75 grainers. Your rifle has shown great accuracy with secant bullets like the Hornady component, but might have a smidge more edge with the Sierra caliber of ogive. Also bodes well as in upcoming 2020, as components might dry up and its a good idea to have proven loads that are accurate in case your favorite bullet is not available due to panic buying or ban if the unthinkable happens.

Diversify your bonds homie...

 

[Notalentbum]

Also bodes well as in upcoming 2020, as components might dry up and its a good idea to have proven loads that are accurate in case your favorite bullet is not available due to panic buying or ban if the unthinkable happens.

Diversify your bonds homie...

My Primary drive for this is I just spent $350 for 400 rounds of this 8026. If I can find a recipe, I can reload for less than half of that price. I was at PSS yesterday with 300 of these same projectiles in my hands but put them back until I can decide what I want to do.

Matt

 

[Disposable Heart]

Look into places like Graf and Sons for reloading supplies, specifically bullets. For about $50 fun bucks, you can get a single stage Lee "hand" press, which I've used for almost a decade now with no issue. Not as fast as a progressive or multi-stage, but certainly capable of accurate rounds. For another $40 or so, you can get the accouterments for priming. Dies, everyone's got their preference. I'm a Lee man. Their basic dies are about $30 a set, their "deluxe" with ability to adjust neck tension and dead length seating is about $45.

$25-30 a lb for powder (so, that's about 240 rounds each lb)
Anywhere from $20-40 for 1k primers
Then the component bullets are about .16-.20 per (so for 200 would be about $40, I've seen $90 for 500 at NE Target and Reloading online, shipped)

So, if you have a decent supply of brass, you're looking at maybe about $330 for 400 rounds, but 90% of that cost is a one time, up front cost. Anything after that, you're looking at REALLY low pricing, like $180 per 400 rounds.

 

[Notalentbum]

I have both a Dillon 650 and another single stage press for my precision rifle loads plus all the dies in calibers I shoot. All my reloading gear is currently in storage waiting for our house to be rebuilt. Hopefully I can get in the house and start reloading again before the end of May. If I had a solid direction I want to go, I could drag the single stage out and rig a small spot to work in the rental we are living in. That’s also part of the reason I didn’t buy the projectiles yesterday.

Matt

 

[sugarcreekbrass]

You can try contacting Hornady and asking them. I did when I wanted to develop a load similar to their 44 mag FTX LeveRevloution. Hodgdon has the LeveRevolution powder, but Hornady told me Lil Gun would be the closest to their factory recipe.

 

[Broom_jm]

One of the virtues of reloading is that people soon come to realize just how accurate their rifles can be. Along with that knowledge, some are surprised to find that it is not one specific load with which their rifle shoots well, but many quality bullets will shoot well, presuming careful load workup is done.

Since you already reload, none of this should come as a surprise. Also, you should already know that you can't duplicate the exact details of a factory load, but you can most certainly expect to get the same kind of results, from your own loads. I've lived in rentals before and it's no big deal to set up a LCT press on either a bench top or one of those portable stands.

You have the power to answer your own questions, authoritatively.

 

[Notropis]

I agree with much of what has been said. I will add just a little. I also have a savage in .223 and I can honestly say, I have found a way to make every single projectile I've used to quickly get MOA. Most go sub MOA pretty easily. I had fun playing with Hornady cheap 55 grain fmj. I could only squeeze so much accuracy from bottom of the barrel projectiles but I did have fun. If you want to share your intent on load, people here might be able to help. Oh, and if your factory load powder is weighed and then you know the projectile and have chronograph data, you should be able to get a similar burn rate powder to match the load. But as others have said, with some tinkering, you'll make more accurate ammo.

 

[Hohn]

I have found a round my Savage .223 bolt rifle loves. I just hate paying a $1 a round for .223 and thought I’d try to duplicate it. I’ve got a fair supply of fire formed cases and can easily buy the projectiles. I can also load to same OAL.
I was wondering if I was to use my preferred powder and load to get the same velocities, would that give me the accuracy that the commercial round does or are there still too many variables involved?

Matt

It's very rare that a commercial load's accuracy cannot be exceeded with a developed hand load. It's clear to you that your rifle "likes" this commercial load. But it's very likely there's a load at there that it will "like" a lot more if you dabbled with a few different rounds.

I was fortunate and found the 73ELD to be amazing in my AR, so I had my workup done after only trying two bullets and two powders. (75 ELD was far less accurate in my rifle at the long OAL I tried it with).

I'm loading my pet 73 ELD load for about 40 cents each. Wolf gold new cases (13 cents, already primed), 22gr of 8208, and a 23 cent 73 ELD.

 

[BE Mike]

Hohn's ideas are spot on. You can duplicate or exceed the factory load, although it takes time and patience. I would start with the same bullet that the factory load has. I would chronograph the factory load. I would carefully prep the brass (same brand and times used). I would use match primers (same brand as the factory load, if possible). I would check the reloading manuals to see what loads with the factory bullet, come out with the same velocity. That should narrow it down a little. I'm old enough to remember way back when moa was an elusive goal, now it is very common.