Wheel gun carry using reloads...

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  • 88E30M50

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    I love reloading and have reloaded thousands upon thousands of rounds over the years. But, I’ve never carried my reloads in a semi-auto pistol. I’ve been getting into revolvers over the last year and have found a couple of loads that I like using a 158g XTP. I’ve run a bunch of them and they are accurate out of my S&W 66.

    Question for the group: Do any of you roll your own SD ammo for revolvers? There’s a lot less going on in a revolver and feed issues are pretty much non-existent. The main reason that I wonder is that I generally don’t carry the 66 with factory .357 SD ammo because I’ve had an occasional failure to fire that took a second strike. I’ve never had that happen in any of the reloads I’ve done using CCI 550 primers. The performance of the reloads is better than I’ve seen with factory ammo on that particular gun.

    I really do need to get that gun to a qualified revolver smith that knows the innards of a S&W. The gun is stock with the exception of having an empty primer cup over the strain screw. It’s an ex MCSD gun that I’ve had for a while.
     

    Brad69

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    Not being a downer on reloads for carry but most “experts” recommend against it for legal reasons. I don’t know enough to say if that is true or not, I do consider what Mas Ayoob says as kinda the gospel IMO.

    https://gundigest.com/handguns/concealed-carry/handloads-not-a-good-idea-for-concealed-carry

    The S&W revolvers often have the strain screw backed off for a lighter pull, which I was always told that was not the right way to do it. If you can find a good Smith, a simple trigger job will make a world of difference and it will go bang everytime.
     

    MarkC

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    Not being a downer on reloads for carry but most “experts” recommend against it for legal reasons. I don’t know enough to say if that is true or not, I do consider what Mas Ayoob says as kinda the gospel IMO.

    https://gundigest.com/handguns/concealed-carry/handloads-not-a-good-idea-for-concealed-carry

    The S&W revolvers often have the strain screw backed off for a lighter pull, which I was always told that was not the right way to do it. If you can find a good Smith, a simple trigger job will make a world of difference and it will go bang everytime.

    I have to agree with the handload suggestion. Not because there is anything wrong with handloads, and what kind of ammunition you're carrying [STRIKE]will [/STRIKE] should not have any bearing on whether or not the use of force was justified. It, however, is just one fact that a plaintiff's lawyer or an overzealous prosecutor can use to create a perception about the motivation for or the facts surrounding the use of force.

    That is one of the reasons I continue to carry the same ammunition in my self-defense weapons as are carried by the agency I retired from. I have an answer for, "why did you choose this round?"
     

    Old Dog

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    I don't see any difference in defensive use of handloads vs. the specialized commercial defensive rounds. The commercial rounds are made specifically to do as much damage as possible. To me commercial rounds could be considered worse. I use both and don't apologize for either. Just my 2 cents.
     

    crewchief888

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    ive never carried reloaded self defense ammo in any gun. as mentioned above, there could be/might be some legal ramifications if/when it came down to me having to use a gun to defend my life.
    just my :twocents:

    i 99% of my reloads are for competition, and really wouldnt be suitable for self defense.
    i do have some reloaded 40 S&W for paper punching in my glock 27



    :cheers:
     

    cce1302

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    I've carried 158 gr XTP handloads in my GP100 and I'm likely to do it again.

    You're also on a good track getting it looked at by a smith.
     

    BE Mike

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    I certainly wouldn't trust the revolver until it will ignite all primers. I wouldn't have any qualms about carrying reloads that I have taken extra care with. I probably would use Federal primers if there was any question about reliable ignition. I think the legal implications are moot if it is a good shoot. I personally haven't found any reload that performs better than the factory loadings I trust and with the small amount that I have for the revolver and extra ammo, the extra cost is irrelevant.
     

    88E30M50

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    Thanks for the replies everyone.

    The legal issue is valid but the only case that I’ve seen Ayoob mention specifically was concerning a light recoil reload that a husband had produced for his wife. When she committed suicide with that load, the prosecutor filed charges because the lack of normal powder burns suggested that the gun was shot from further away than a suicide would allow.

    I do need to get that pistol to a good gun smith to have it checked out. I don’t know if it needs a longer hammer nose or maybe a longer strain screw. The strain screw that’s in there looks like it’s peened a bit on the end.
     

    88E30M50

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    I should say that the main appeal to carrying reloads is not so much a cost issue but more of a case of being able to shoot a large quantity of the exact load I’d be carrying. There is the reliability issue as well since I’ve had zero issues with the reloads using what are considered to be hard primers, yet I typically get one or two failures to fire in a box of 50 factory magnum loads.

    The reliability issue needs to be resolved though.
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    The legal issue is valid but the only case that I’ve seen Ayoob mention specifically was concerning a light recoil reload that a husband had produced for his wife. When she committed suicide with that load, the prosecutor filed charges because the lack of normal powder burns suggested that the gun was shot from further away than a suicide would allow.

    There are a few others he talks about in his class. Some of his information he deems proprietary and doesn't discuss it outside of the last day of in-person lectures.

    From my experience, it's *probably* never going to be an issue in a criminal court. Probably isn't never, though.

    Civil court is where you're more likely to have an issue. Remember it's about creating a narrative, and to a jury the other side has tried to select based on lack of knowledge of guns. Yes, your attorney can fight the notion that you loaded ultra-mega-death rounds. Attorney's arguing things cost you money, and by the hour. The less arguing your attorney has to do, the better. Giving few hooks for a narrative is in your best interest. When I was depo'd for a potential lawsuit regarding death of offender, they asked questions that would never be allowed in a criminal case. Your hobbies, social media presence, etc, all fair game. Why do they care? Narrative creation.

    I reload. In the zombie apocalypse, I've no issue carrying my reloads. Given the availability of quality commercial loads, I see no reason to take on the courtroom/financial survival risk of reloads. I know of one individual who did use reloads in a shooting and now recommends against it. I know several expert witness/attorneys who've done self-defense cases who recommend against it. I know of none who recommend you do it. It strikes me as telling that been there-done that folks are all on the same page on the matter.
     

    BE Mike

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    Like they say, "Every round fired has a law suit attached!" Instead of worrying about what kind of ammo we use, we should focus on getting insurance.
     

    88E30M50

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    There are a few others he talks about in his class. Some of his information he deems proprietary and doesn't discuss it outside of the last day of in-person lectures.

    From my experience, it's *probably* never going to be an issue in a criminal court. Probably isn't never, though.

    Civil court is where you're more likely to have an issue. Remember it's about creating a narrative, and to a jury the other side has tried to select based on lack of knowledge of guns. Yes, your attorney can fight the notion that you loaded ultra-mega-death rounds. Attorney's arguing things cost you money, and by the hour. The less arguing your attorney has to do, the better. Giving few hooks for a narrative is in your best interest. When I was depo'd for a potential lawsuit regarding death of offender, they asked questions that would never be allowed in a criminal case. Your hobbies, social media presence, etc, all fair game. Why do they care? Narrative creation.

    I reload. In the zombie apocalypse, I've no issue carrying my reloads. Given the availability of quality commercial loads, I see no reason to take on the courtroom/financial survival risk of reloads. I know of one individual who did use reloads in a shooting and now recommends against it. I know several expert witness/attorneys who've done self-defense cases who recommend against it. I know of none who recommend you do it. It strikes me as telling that been there-done that folks are all on the same page on the matter.

    Thanks BBI. Solid info there. The civil side seems to be the tough side to nail down. I sure hope that Guy's work to get that fixed works.
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    Like they say, "Every round fired has a law suit attached!" Instead of worrying about what kind of ammo we use, we should focus on getting insurance.

    Is there any "insurance" out there yet that isn't reimbursement after the fact and will actually help with the cost of defense before the matter is settled? I'm interested for post-retirement and even out-of-state travel.
     

    BE Mike

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    Is there any "insurance" out there yet that isn't reimbursement after the fact and will actually help with the cost of defense before the matter is settled? I'm interested for post-retirement and even out-of-state travel.
    Prolly not, unless you get something special where the premiums are too high to consider.
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    Prolly not, unless you get something special where the premiums are too high to consider.

    Ick. I wonder if there are any attorneys (worth hiring) who take these sorts of cases on contingency and will wait to get paid from your insurance. The civil lawsuit threat has a chilling effect on people helping each other out. That was recognized decades ago on the medical side which lead to "Good Samaritan" laws for those who would give CPR to strangers, etc. It'd be nice if the law catches up on defense of self/others in this context as well.
     

    Sniper 79

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    Every gun I own is stoked with hand loads. I don't buy factory ammo unless its winter or shooting in tall grass. For those times where brass retrieval isn't possible factory steel case gets shot. Legal ramifications is horse pucky.
     

    MarkC

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    Every gun I own is stoked with hand loads. I don't buy factory ammo unless its winter or shooting in tall grass. For those times where brass retrieval isn't possible factory steel case gets shot. Legal ramifications is horse pucky.

    That's easy to say until you get sued. Any one can sue anybody for anything, with or without merit. Courts are often unwilling to impose sanctions if there is even a sliver of plausibility in the plaintiff's case.

    For example: https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...ficers-aide-fatal-indiana-shooting/523307002/

    Of course, it doesn't matter what kind of ammunition you use, you still could get sued. But, once you are sued, bad facts, such as creating your own "extra double lethal man-killing bullet" makes the case harder.

    Even if your ammunition isn't that much different from an industry standard self-defense load, the attorney for the plaintiff (or the State) is going to seize every possible item to make his or her case stronger.
     

    BE Mike

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    This reloads vs. factory for self-defense has pretty much been beaten to death. I'd be interested if there is any case where it was a factor. The last I heard is that no case has ever been brought forth which shows that reloaded ammo was a factor in a criminal case or civil case. I would appreciate being proven wrong. I'm sure that there are people out there who have come to someone else's aid and having been dragged through the court system, regret getting involved in the first place.
     

    VERT

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    Is there any "insurance" out there yet that isn't reimbursement after the fact and will actually help with the cost of defense before the matter is settled? I'm interested for post-retirement and even out-of-state travel.

    I think the problem is that a defensive shooting is a willfill act. You decide to shoot the gun. I know, I know...the criminal chooses the fight we don’t, but we may get to choose when the fight starts. Still the problem remains that insurance guidelines generally don’t allow willful acts.
     
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