Reloading bench downsizing thoughts

[1775usmarine]

Last year my wife and I built a reloading bench using a solid wood core door and wood bought from Lowes. It cost us less than 100 for all materials used. I got 2 overhead kitchen cabinets from another member for on the bench storage for free. Under the bench I have space for my reloading buckets, ammo cans with bullets and an overhead light to see under the bench.

I currently have mounted from left to right an ohaus powder measure, a lee single stage, a rcbs reloader special 5, a dillon 450 set up for 357, a square deal set up in 45, and a lee loadmaster set up for 9mm. I have them all evenly spaced so I can insert brass and bullets but getting into the cabinets is a bit of a challenge. I also have a good 8 in of space between the presses and cabinets.

I've been thinking since we had our son in March of selling off the loadmaster and lee single stage and buying conversion kits for 38spl, 9 and 357. I love the way the square deal operates and would more than likely use the 450 as my dedicated 223 press. I would use the rcbs for my odd ball calibers in which I only have a gun or 2 and dont shoot on a regular basis.

I'm not concerned with drilling more holes, but like the convenience the square deal has to offer at this point in my reloading career. I probably won't be heading to the range as often so the space on the bench and in the cabinets could lighten getting rid of extra dies and being able to reorganize for the toolheads I would need.

Would any of you think of going this route? Would I need anything else to make this transition smoother that I haven't thought of? What would make you keep it the way I have it?

 

[JeepHammer]

I think you are onto something.
I keep a Lee 'Turret' (tool head) press for processing, teardown tools,
I have an RCBS Rock Chucker for 'Premium' rifle rounds,
And everything else is Dillon.

Every .45 ACP falls out of a SBD, all .223 falls out of an XL650, all 9mm/.223/.308 brass processing is done on a Super 1050.
I load 9mm on both the Super 1050 (not driven) and XL650, depending on if it's hollow point or ball.
I use hollows for self defense, so I want more control checks, those get loaded on the XL650.

You can't beat a SDB for larger pistol without hassles, mine is 20 years old and kept well lubricated, so other than needing a powder check, it's nearly perfect.
Small (plastic) parts wear out, but for 10s of thousands of rounds between rebuilds, it works REALLY well.

I don't own a 450, so no comment.
Most guys get a 550 or 650 when they want to do rifle. I don't hear any specific complaints about the 450...

The 650 has enough stations for a powder check, which I want and saves my butt, even with separate seat & crimp dies.
(I use a 'Factory Crimp' die on .223)
With a case feeder it's stupid fast, over 600 an hour if you can feed the bins fast enough, and it makes close tolerance ammo.

The Super 1050 will bend the most stubborn brass back into shape, and it swages military crimps out.
I process a bunch of milbrass, and it does that job quite well.

I can't recommend swaging on an aluminum frame (other than 1050), but people do it.
If your volume is low enough, and you only have to swage once, a $80 bench swage is a much better deal than a $2,000 press.
For high volume milbrass, the 1050 will survive a motor drive, and to process brass (not load) I find the 1050 a reasonable compromise considering a Camdex processor is $28,000.

I've owned Hornady, Lee, etc progressives, and while a well tuned Hornady will be *Almost* as productive as a Dillon 650, the Lee Loadmaster is a piece of crap.
I literally beat a Lee Loadmaster off the bench I was so frustrated with it after buying a Dillon 650.

I've made so many modifications to the Rock Chucker it can't hardly be called RCBS anymore, but it still cranks out some high tolerance rounds.
Hard to beat a Rock Chucker with iron frame...

 

[1775usmarine]

Just off of Dillons page for conversion kits for 9, 38, and 357. I'd rather have one set for 38 and one for 357 just so I can keep my settings, 3 toolheads, and 3 powder measures if I decided to not want the hassle of returning loads after change out it would run 647.55 without adding in ship and any tax. If I did the quick change kits and conversions I'd be at 680.70. I could get away with the one powder measure i have now as I would plan to load one caliber at a time when my current ammo stocks start getting low that would drop me to a more reasonable 386.70. Obviously any spare parts from the 38 and 357 kits could be sold off to recoup a little as I wouldnt need 2 shell plates and pins.

If I sold off the 2 presses mentioned in the OP I would gain a good 20in length wise of work space to get into the cabinets easier.

 

[JeepHammer]

Look into 'Entirely Crimson' quick disconnects for powder thrower before doing what I did and buy a powder thrower for every caliber tool head.
They are pretty slick and allow for swapping the powder thrower over in a few seconds, and at about $25 MUCH cheaper than the oldest used powder thrower.
Each tool head & die set will have a powder die, you just swap the thrower over and adjust.
You keep your seat & crimp settings this way if you aren't adverse to setting the charge throw, which I always check several before loading anyway...

https://entirelycrimson.com/collect...ts/quick-disconnect-for-dillon-powder-alarm-1

OR...
You could put sliding doors on the cabinets

 

[1775usmarine]

Look into 'Entirely Crimson' quick disconnects for powder thrower before doing what I did and buy a powder thrower for every caliber tool head.
They are pretty slick and allow for swapping the powder thrower over in a few seconds, and at about $25 MUCH cheaper than the oldest used powder thrower.
Each tool head & die set will have a powder die, you just swap the thrower over and adjust.
You keep your seat & crimp settings this way if you aren't adverse to setting the charge throw, which I always check several before loading anyway...

https://entirelycrimson.com/collect...ts/quick-disconnect-for-dillon-powder-alarm-1

OR...
You could put sliding doors on the cabinets

That would cut down on my costs.

 

[Sniper 79]

I was recently in your shoes. Had 14 different calibers handloading for seven. Cut it in half when our first was born 7 calibers handloading four. Had a second child amongst other various hobbies and projects.

Sold all my guns and equipment and started over. Don't have time or money to mess around. Every thing now has a purpose and works together as a system. Speed is what I need.

I went with a Dillon 650 and an RCBS turret off to the side. So far so good. Only regret was not doing it sooner.

 

[drm-hp]

Please post some photos.
I am building a new smaller home. I need some conservation ideas.

 

[1775usmarine]

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...08994-reloading-room-pics-17.html#post7453793

See post #651

 

[Sniper 79]

[/IMG]

Room is 8x9 I think. Working out nice. Previous owners were shooters so it's been a loading room from day one. I did carpet tiles, base boards, slat wall, and paint last spring. I want a better light and to staple some camo net to the ceiling.

All loaded ammo goes in cans under bench. All brass and bullets on top. That all acts as ballast and is also screwed to wall.

Slat wall is nice for hanging guns or other projects. The room doubles as a work room. Always fishing, hunting, carburetors or something that needs fixed up.

 

[Steel and wood]

Look into 'Entirely Crimson' quick disconnects for powder thrower before doing what I did and buy a powder thrower for every caliber tool head.
They are pretty slick and allow for swapping the powder thrower over in a few seconds, and at about $25 MUCH cheaper than the oldest used powder thrower.
Each tool head & die set will have a powder die, you just swap the thrower over and adjust.
You keep your seat & crimp settings this way if you aren't adverse to setting the charge throw, which I always check several before loading anyway...

https://entirelycrimson.com/collect...ts/quick-disconnect-for-dillon-powder-alarm-1

OR...
You could put sliding doors on the cabinets

JeepHammer I just got my Entirely Crimson quick disconnector and it works great. What a great idea thanks for posting the link. Going to save time and space.

 

[1775usmarine]

So I recently sold off the loadmaster and got my 9mm square deal conversion kit and tool head. I also bought the conversion kit for my 450 to do 223. Going through my cabinets before leaving for work tonight I think I would have 3 die sets and the 38/357 450/550 conversion set to get rid of.

I've just started tossing the idea of selling both single stages and getting a turret press to bring my total presses from 4 to 3. I have 4 calibers which I dont do much high volume shooting with. Obviously replaceable toolheads would be nice so I can set it and forget it and can put them in the cabinet when not in use. How does the lee turret press compare to the others?


I've got a system down now for depriming my brass on the frankford deprimer and slowly getting a system down for wet tumbling my brass before loading. Slowly but surely my reloading bench is coming into view.

 

[JeepHammer]

I have the old 3 hole Lee 'Turret' (tool head) press, and I pick them up when I see them cheap simply because the tool heads are still available and eventually everything breaks.

My tool heads, case gauges, cartridge holders, etc all on one shelf just behind the press.
It's my tool press, pulling bullets, universal decapper, die sets set up for specific rifles, etc.

The shelf is nothing more that a board, hinge, screen door latch, holes & a 1/4" brass rod I cut for pins.
Hinges so I can lock it upright too protect dies, but still get to them while I'm comfortably parked in my chair.
I just used a screw in the side wall for a stop.

Brass won't rust the gauges like wooden dowel rods do, and brass doesn't scratch.
The champfer/deburring tool for cases works equally well on brass rod for tapered, finished ends.
My benches are workstation mobile, so I don't want things sliding around when I move it.

For a $3 board & $10 at the hardware store it works pretty well and makes for 5 second tool or caliber changes.

It's partnered with a Dillon XL650, no 'Mystery' rounds on my benches, if it's suspect or doesn't pass QC, I take it down immediately.
Since you only change up the Dillon once per reloading session, the Dillon caliber changes are on top, and I needed room for the powder thrower, so again on top shelf.

It's been many moons since this picture was taken, there is a bench just like it for pistol rounds, it has the SBD & another 3 hole Lee 'Turret' press, all the pistol stuff is moved to it.

 

[1775usmarine]

Luckily we have a reloading store down the road I think they have the classic lee 4 hole mounted for you to see and play with. Would be easy to try before I buy. I'm leaning towards the all steel vs the cheaper aluminum one. I would have to figure a way to mount either an old ohaus duo measure or lyman 54 on the lee. Once everything is said and done my bench should have 3 presses and more room to roam around. I should have some space to put the food dehydrator on the bench and maybe make a tray to hold it to catch any pins that fall through.

Till then I have been watching Ebay and GB like a hawk for a press and conversion kits to come up to save a few extra bucks.


Jeephammer would you spend the extra money on an extra powder hopper or 2 for the square deal? I use titegroup with get success in my 9 45 and 38. I have made a dozen loads of 357 that gave me a sd of 13 between them. I dont have what in front of me what the high and low fps was but I know they were over 1k. Now that powder is cheaper maybe i'll spring for a few lbs that work better in the 357 though i haven't done any accuracy testing yet with the load I worked up with titegroup.

 

[JeepHammer]

It depends,
I do propellant throw size with mine, one is super small for powders like Tightgroup, split (2 piece) charge bar for that.
TG is such small charges, and it's so powerful I really pay attention to what gets in the cases.
9mm isn't too bad, but the wife's .380 is a pain to throttle down enough without a split charge bar.

I'm not an accuracy pistol shooter, but the usual stuff works with the super small split charge bars, baffle, vibrator/shaker, weights, etc.
I find TG to be particularly a pain because of static and it's sticky on top of that, you wouldn't think anything with that much moisture would have static issues, but this is reloading, so normal rules don't exactly apply.

I do another for large pistol/small rifle, standard 1 piece charge bar.
Works fine for case filling pistol powders and .223-ish size rifle cases.

I have one set up for large rifle/magnum rifle with the LARGE charge bar.

No sense in having more than three, and with an SBD, just two will do everything the SBD will do.
95% will get along with just one since they aren't going to do .380 & .44 mag or .45 Colt.
It's just a charge bar and not an entire thrower change even if you do, once you fiddle with it a little the charge bars can be changes in 5 minutes with zero issues and I think two common tools. (Allen wrench & needle nose pliers).

DO NOT BUY charge bars until you ask on the forums!
Those charge bars are the only thing Dillon that sells/trades relatively cheap, I've seen several just given away for shipping.
I guess if a guy got the older powder thrower that had all three and he's only loading smaller pistol, why have the extras laying around?

I'm 90% sure all the charge bars interchange in all the different throwers, age/type hasn't mattered on my stuff *Yet*, the old thrower bars interchange with the new lockout throwers, I know that for sure... The older SBD's didn't use the lockout version, so I have a couple, and I have several of the lockout versions for 650 & 1050.

 

[1775usmarine]

I just set up my 450 for 223 last night. In pretty sure I used a large powder bar from my sdb so I could get it dialed in for blc2.

Your right about the number of throwers needed. I just went and looked at my hand written notes and the 9 45 and 38 are all within a 1gr of where I have them set. I had to load some 45 last night and after almost 6 to 8 months of not loading it did only take 5 to 10 min to re dial the thrower back in. Plus since I do plan on loading one caliber at a time till the freedom seeds run out the time doesnt matter.

 

[JeepHammer]

The only issue I have with changing charge bars is the little white plastic square with the hole in it,
I have a tendency to drop them, and on a white bench top, and with old eyes they don't just jump up and greet you...

Honestly, I solved the super small throw issue with a bulkier powder, I very rarely dust off the split bar thrower.
I spent a lot of time polishing, adding aftermarket adjustment screws, baffles, weights, etc to get that thing to throw tiny charges...
Bulkier powder solved all those issues, plus, the case fills up enough you easily see a single throw and a double overflows the case.
Her .380s don't know the difference... Not that she shoots them a lot, usually taking up a .22 rifle in short order most times.

With the quick disconnects, I have too many throwers now.
They aren't cheap, so it's just kind of money suspended in time now.
The small solid bar will throw large pistol up through .308 win, and I don't shoot very much larger anymore.
The .45 ACP on the SBD has it's own thrower, I don't mess with it much, it's pretty well right where I want it.

If this will do you any good, with the quick release, you simply screw a powder die body into a powder thrower arm, like you use with micrometer powder throwers, and clamp the Dillon on the die body.
We all have an RCBS or other maker micrometer thrower if you have been at this very long,
And that gets the Dillon thrower up off the deck so you can manually trip charges and weight them before you install on the SBD.
I find getting a charge out of an SBD to weigh it tedious... So I set the throw volume before I start cranking if there are big adjustments to make.

Since I have extra stands the Dillon powder dies hasn't come out of the stand on that bench for a couple or three years...
Just another 'Found' shortcut that works with the aftermarket quick releases.

 

[judgecrater]

Any plan that includes one or more Square Deals I am in favor of. I have two and have used them for decades successfully for many pistol calibers.

 

[JeepHammer]

JeepHammer I just got my Entirely Crimson quick disconnector and it works great. What a great idea thanks for posting the link. Going to save time and space.

Glad to hear it worked out for you.

Now, if you call Dillon they will send you a FREE powder die body (the threaded part) and you can hang that in a single press or a powder thrower stand (I have more than a couple RCBS stands) to set up your throws before you install it on the Dillon machine.

When you are adjusting/fine tuning it's often a pain in the posterior to get the charge to drop in a case, then get the case out of the machine.
To speed this up now that Entirely Crimson solved the disconnect problem, with the extra die body off the Dillon, you just finger trip throws directly I to the scale pan to adjust,
When it's throwing what you want, simply install it on the machine die.

Any plan that includes one or more Square Deals I am in favor of. I have two and have used them for decades successfully for many pistol calibers.

I have a couple extra die sets & tool heads for my SBD, but the XL650 works with case & bullet feeders.
9mm falls out of it like water...

-------

Light bullets in .45 ACP (short & fat) like to get flipped nose down in the bullet feeder,
But .45 bullets are just fine for my fingers (fat fingers) so .45 actually does quite well in the SBD for me.
The cases & the bullets are just easier for me to feed than 9mm in the SBD, and the SBD just does such a great job on .45 ACP I just don't load them on anything else.

-------

For $500, Mr. Bullet Feeder *Should* do a better job than it does with short/fat bullets....
I have yet to get a flipped rifle bullet, even really light .223 bullets drop flawlessly, but short/fat pistol, not so much.

I bought an open source 3D printed bullet feeder and it throws 9mm without fail... For $75!
$500 for Mr. bullet feeder that throws 1/10 up side down, $75 internet special hooked to Mr. Bullet feeder die and it functions flawlessly.
Doesn't take long to do that math!

 

[JeepHammer]

So I recently sold off the loadmaster and got my 9mm square deal conversion kit and tool head. I also bought the conversion kit for my 450 to do 223. Going through my cabinets before leaving for work tonight I think I would have 3 die sets and the 38/357 450/550 conversion set to get rid of.

I've just started tossing the idea of selling both single stages and getting a turret press to bring my total presses from 4 to 3. I have 4 calibers which I dont do much high volume shooting with. Obviously replaceable toolheads would be nice so I can set it and forget it and can put them in the cabinet when not in use. How does the lee turret press compare to the others?


I've got a system down now for depriming my brass on the frankford deprimer and slowly getting a system down for wet tumbling my brass before loading. Slowly but surely my reloading bench is coming into view.

I'm not sure this will help since it's not clear if you have a wet tumbler already...

I bought an ice cream machine for $20 off eBay...
Low speed/high torque motor, stainless steel drum with over a gallon capacity,
Ice bucket allowed me to screw on some cheap angle brackets to lean it over when running and still caught the slops from the drum.
I was shooting .45 every weekend back then, and I'd do half gallon or more for 4 days a week.
Half gallon started in the morning, runs between morning start & first break when I laid them out to dry, then reloaded after work.

The ice cream mixer & Dillon SBD made short work of half gallon of brass a day.
It did this for about 4 years before the motor failed...
I screwed a kitchen mixer motor to it (from Goodwill, about $7 or $10) and I still use it once in a while.
The old heavy kitchen mixer motors are variable speed, built tough, and replacement parts like brushes & bearings are still available for a bunch of them.

Just an idea...
My process was to decap on a single 'C' press I got in a trade, use a universal decapping die so I wasn't chasing dies if different calibers got mixed in,
And toss them directly into the ice cream drum.

I know an ice cream mixer isn't perfect, but it's in-between the $100 plastic & $400 or more heavy metal units.
For $25 it was just about right for me since I was dead broke at the time...

 

[1775usmarine]

After some thought I'll probably sell one of the single stages, and do my 9mm mak, 38s&w, 32s&w, and 7.62x25 on that. I figure 100 rounds when needed of those calibers doesnt warrant a turret at this time. I figure I can work the brass and have it stored away so all I have to do is dump powder, seat, and crimp.

Will probably buy the square deal kit for 32 acp as I would like to shoot my cz70 and cz50 (once its refinished and put back toger) more than the rest and may buy a yugo m70 32acp to add to the collection.