Wet Tumbling - No Pins

[Doublehelix]

My wet tumbling has evolved over the last few years as I became lazier and have so much brass to process...

The first thing to go was to stop de-capping before washing. Who cares about nice shiny primer pockets, right???

Now for the heck of it, I decided to try wet tumbling WITHOUT the SS pins. I have read other posts of folks doing this, but I never wanted to try it since I at *LEAST* want the inside of the cases clean, even if the primer pockets are dirty, right???

Well...

I had about 10-12 loads of pistol brass waiting to be cleaned, and the hardest part about wet tumbling for me is separating out the pins at the end. I decided to be lazy and try a couple of loads without pins and compare the results.

Just as I suspected! The outside of the cases are nice and shiny (the brass-on-brass peening will shine up the outside), and the inside of the cases are "cleaner", but still somewhat black.

Some folks like clean insides so they can see the powder level in the cases, but with the overhead light in my press, I can still see inside just fine.

It is SO MUCH easier to clean after a run. I just basically pour the brass into a colander after the run, and rinse well. Done. Wow. That was easy!!!

I think I have decided for bulk pistol cases, this is fine. I process and load about 16,000 - 20,000 pistol cases a year, and this definitely speeds up the process.

For more precision loads (rifle), I will continue to decap and will continue to use pins, but for the bulk loads of pistol brass, I think I can live with the dirty case interiors. At least for a while...

Obviously, YMMV.

 

[JeepHammer]

"10-12 Loads of pistol brass"
If you don't mind me asking, about how much in a 'Load'?

I think it's 'Southern Shine' that makes the chips instead of pins, and the chips work faster, particularly on pistol brass.
Not cheap, but they do work.
I also found them to be easier to filter out of the pistol brass, the average media separator got them out rather easily.

I quit decapping on the common range practice brass when the volume got out of hand, and I can't really say stains inside the case or a little carbon in the primer pocket has made any difference in the loaded rounds, even when I was running straight through a progressive.
Spent primer out, new primer in and around for reloading, no issues I could detect.
I got over high polish a long time ago... As long as their clean and they run, I don't care.
Not that I shoot a lot of pistol anymore, I never was really good at it, something else I can admit now...

 

[Kirk Freeman]

How long can you continue to have gack inside the case build up and not impact internal pressures?

 

[JHB]

How is wet tumbling without pins that much different than ultrasonic cleaning?
Price wise the equipment is about the same and the ultrasonic can be used for other cleaning chores.
The reason I ask this is because the people that I know that wet tumble think ultrasonic is a inferior method at cleaning brass.
To me the only up side to wet tumbling is shiny brass at the cost of more work.

 

[Good on paper]

The pins are a bit of a PITA to separate but I bought a couple 6 to 8 inch diameter wire mesh kitchen strainers and doubled up the screen to retain the pins while washing off the cleaned brass in the tumbler. The rest of them come out in my media separator.
Jim are you using Lemi shine and dish soap?

 

[JeepHammer]

How long can you continue to have gack inside the case build up and not impact internal pressures?

It's not crud that builds up, it's just discoloration.
Same with primer pocket when you knock out the primer first, just discolored.
You don't knock the primer out first, and there can be hard carbon left in the primer pocket.

Doesn't matter what you use, the inside of the case takes hours of cleaning with pins or chips to shine up.
With soap, water and a little acid to beat hard water, open cases like most pistol clean really quickly, like 10 or 20 minutes quickly, the inside will still be a little stained, the hard carbon will be gone.
If the primers are knocked out, there might be a speck or two of carbon left in the pocket, but they are usually cleaned.

One tip,
If you tumble with primers in, you MUST dry the cases before storage.
Leaving wet primers in the cases then storing will allow corrosion to creep in making the primers hard to remove, and potentially damage the primer pocket.

If you are processing right away, I just bang out the water, throw dry media polish (Walnut) right in the tumbler,
Damp (not wet) brass polishes right up, and what little moisture is left just keeps the dust down.
Once they are washed they polish up MUCH quicker, and your polishing media last much longer when the oily gunk isn't plugging it up.

 

[Doublehelix]

"10-12 Loads of pistol brass"
If you don't mind me asking, about how much in a 'Load'?

I fit a standard coffee can's worth of brass into each load. That is close to 1,000 9mm, about 600 .40 and maybe 500 or so of .45.

How long can you continue to have gack inside the case build up and not impact internal pressures?

Great question, and this was a concern of mine as well, but the wet tumbling without pins *does* clean the inside, but doesn't get it shiny by any means. I am definitely going to be keeping my eye on the cases while loading, and if I start to see any build up, I will go back to the pins.

How is wet tumbling without pins that much different than ultrasonic cleaning?
Price wise the equipment is about the same and the ultrasonic can be used for other cleaning chores.
The reason I ask this is because the people that I know that wet tumble think ultrasonic is a inferior method at cleaning brass.
To me the only up side to wet tumbling is shiny brass at the cost of more work.

I have seen the ultrasonic cleaners at Harbor Freight, and have almost bought one several times. I might have to look into that as well.

It's not crud that builds up, it's just discoloration.
Same with primer pocket when you knock out the primer first, just discolored.
You don't knock the primer out first, and there can be hard carbon left in the primer pocket.

Doesn't matter what you use, the inside of the case takes hours of cleaning with pins or chips to shine up.
With soap, water and a little acid to beat hard water, open cases like most pistol clean really quickly, like 10 or 20 minutes quickly, the inside will still be a little stained, the hard carbon will be gone.
If the primers are knocked out, there might be a speck or two of carbon left in the pocket, but they are usually cleaned.

This seems to be my experience as well so far.

One tip,
If you tumble with primers in, you MUST dry the cases before storage.
Leaving wet primers in the cases then storing will allow corrosion to creep in making the primers hard to remove, and potentially damage the primer pocket.

I dry my brass (with the spent primer in place) in a brass dryer right away. Haven't seen this be an issue yet.

 

[JeepHammer]

Doublehelix,

You never know what people are going to do!
So you ask questions and throw in warnings...

My first wet 'Tumbler' was an igloo water jug with screw on lid that held about half gallon.
My second was an ice cream maker. The plastic paddles agitated the brass and it cleaned much faster.
It worked so well that when a buddy set his up we dipped the steel paddles in vinyl and ran it.

I haven't checked on ultrasonic in over a decade (or two), what I found back then was volume issues, they just didn't hold very much, but that might have changed... All the units back then we're pretty much for jewelry...

I mention wet primers and storage, because I made that mistake.
Got in a hurry running oddball, kind of hard to find brass, threw them in a sealed ammo can and left them about a year before I remembered them.
It didn't turn out well, much of the brass was unusable.
I'm sure the 11 months or so was the big factor, but it was a corroded mess.
Live & learn...

One thing I do with smaller batches is paint strainers for 5 gallon buckets,
Simply dump pins/chips & brass in the bucket/paint strainer to separate water from solids,
Then dump brass, pins/chips into the separator and rattle the pins/chips out of the brass (and the last of the water).
Bucket size paint strainers are dirt cheap and live a fair life in this application.

I had to build a cement mixer sized separator drum, no one I know builds one.
Expanded metal sides, center shaft, motor, tin to direct pins/dry media down into a catch tub.
For batches your size, the commercial plastic units are big enough, but I would suggest you get one with the bucket/base that sits in a 5 gallon bucket.
Having it lifted up with a 5 gallon bucket keeps you off the floor, and if your volume demands, you can take the bottom out of the separator & use the bucket for the catch container.

Just some ideas, use what you can...

 

[mark40sw]

I have wet tumbled with the frankford arsenal tumbler for years with pins. Time consuming with the pin separation, but insides were like a brass mirror.

Had trouble with pistol cases sticking to the expander/powder funnel on a dillon progressive. Came across a thread commenting on how some were "no pin" tumbling and the slight carbon film left on the inside minimized the sticking. After I tried "no pin", sticking did go away. Rinsing & pouring out brass to dry now just a couple minute job.

Also learned of using armor-all wash & wax that leaves a slight film of silicone that further helps with dillon expander funnel sticking. The film will keep the brass from tarnishing during storage.

Now on very dirty range pick up brass, i tumble with dawn (teaspoon) and lemishine (teaspoon). Have to take care and not leave brass in lemi-shine solution for very long because it will begin to discolor brass, so rinsing right after tumbling. Then tumble for a short time with armor-all wash & wax.
I rinse once after this to avoid washing away all the film left by the armor-all, then dry. Outsides are extremely shiny and the insides are a dull brass color but clean with slight carbon residue.

 

[Good on paper]

I just started wet tumbling a month or so ago and haven’t tried it without pins but I’m going to run the next batch without. I don’t really care about super shiny I just want them clean enough to load and run. I will pick up some .40 that’s baked in the sun for a while, it’ll be interesting how those turn out.

 

[Punkinhead]

I decap before tumbling. Not just to clean the pockets, but it helps get the water and other debris out of the cases. Having the primers in place seems to create a vacuum or maybe it's the water's surface tension, but either way it's harder to get the water and media out. As far as separating the pins, I use one of these:

 

[Doublehelix]

Just some ideas, use what you can...

Great stuff, thanks for posting that.

As has been mentioned, I also use Armor All Wash and Wax ($$$) and Lemishine. I tumble in a FART for about 2-3 hours, then used to separate the pins from the cases in a FA tumbler which has worked pretty well, but is time-consuming and arduous. Once separated, the cases go right into a FA brass dryer (basically a food dehydrator) for 1.5 hours at 165F. I use a wall plug timer that I can set on my phone.

Now that I am going away from pins (at least for a while to test), I am going pick up one of those large paint strainers that @JeepHammer mentioned just to wash and rinse the brass from all the soap and Lemishine, then right into the dryer.

I have to find a way to speed up my process, either that or win the lotto and pay someone to do it under my strict instructions!

 

[schmart]

I have to find a way to speed up my process, either that or win the lotto and pay someone to do it under my strict instructions!

Don't know if you've seen Jerry Miculek's process... He uses a concrete mixer and can wash 5 gallons of brass in one batch. He then has metal tub that fits into an electric oven for drying. He has a video on youtube were he goes through his processes.

--Rick

 

[JeepHammer]

Don't know if you've seen Jerry Miculek's process... He uses a concrete mixer and can wash 5 gallons of brass in one batch. He then has metal tub that fits into an electric oven for drying. He has a video on youtube were he goes through his processes.

--Rick

You mean something like the way I do milbrass?

Not sure even I can keep up with Jerry! That man puts lead on target faster than anyone I know of...

-----

I use a screen on the mixer, drain, rinse, drain again, throw in dry media on the DAMP (not wet) brass, and that usually does the trick.
A nylon minnow seine net (on a 2"x4" frame) allows for air drying, even indoors all it takes is a Wally-World fan on the net.
Metal leaves marks on the brass, so I use nylon.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...nnow+sein.TRS0&_nkw=minnow+seine+net&_sacat=0

I *Try* not to wash more than I can process, but if I do the net keeps them drying without taking up space or energy (like drying in an oven). I try to economize, I'm off grid, so heat/power can be an issue.

I've got a buddy that uses a net mesh scuba bag and throws them in an old cloths dryer... That dryer must have really good bearings!

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...t=0&_odkw=net+dry+cleaning+bag&LH_TitleDesc=0

Like I said, you can use a 5 gallon bucket paint strainers to filter water from pins & brass...
They are cheap and any full on paint store would have them.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...313&_nkw=5+gal+bucket+paint+strainer&_sacat=0

It depends entirely on your volume, and your process, against, just some ideas...

 

[gmcttr]

I deprime, tumble and use a separator similar to the one Punkinhead posted. I fill it 3/4 of the way with clean water which helps the pins fall out of the cases very quickly along with getting rid of any soap residue from tumbling.

 

[schmart]

You mean something like the way I do milbrass?

Yes pretty much exactly that way! I'm now wondering why you've held out on telling us you taught Jerry!

--Rick

 

[JeepHammer]

Yes pretty much exactly that way! I'm now wondering why you've held out on telling us you taught Jerry!

--Rick

What can I teach Jerry?

I met Jerry several years ago for about 2 minutes, seemed like a nice guy.
He has a handshake like a hydraulic metal sheer! I about cried for 'Mama'!

I went from a water jug, to an ice cream machine, to a 5 gallon bucket to a cement mixer.
I haven't gone bigger because you still have to lift up buckets of brass... Until they make anti-gravity buckets I'm sticking with 5 gallon buckets for lifting...