9mm 147 gr Blue Bullet USPSA minor PF load

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  • Nepherael

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    Having some trouble tracking down reliable data. Probably because I'm so new at this and not understanding everything I'm reading. Hoping someone here can help me with my first reloading experience.

    I have two types of bullets from blue bullets and I'm trying to work up a load with Alliant Unique powder. I also have some 124 gr. These loads are for minimum PF for USPSA so, since I don't have a chrono, as long as my minimum charge gets me a little over 130 PF I'm happy.

    If you have a recipe or some info on this please let me know.

    Here's where I'm currently at

    Loading for a CZ Shadow 2

    147 gr RN Blue Bullet
    3.8-4.1 gr of Alliant Unique (trying to decide between starting @ 3.8 or 4)
    OAL- 1.1? (I'll do a plunk test)

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    If you have a recipe for the 124 gr RN as well I'll take anything you can give me.

    Appreciate it!
     

    Nepherael

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    I have several CZ’s make sure you do the plunk test most CZ need there oal shorter.

    I'm also trying to understand how important OAL is in all this. I see people using a different OAL all the time. Somewhere between 1.10-1.25 in the Shadow 2 and 1.11-1.15 in everything else I see. I measured the factory loads I've been putting in it (federal) and they're 1.15 so I basically just arbitrarily chose 1.14.

    I understand that I can figure out the exact OAL for my barrel but I would rather get a load worked up that just works at first. I would also like to be making ammo that I could shoot in any of my pistols for now until I get a little more specialized.

    I hope that choosing the 1.14 OAL will suffice for that purpose.
     

    Nepherael

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    I also found out late last night that the dillon carbide die set I got does not flare the case mouth. It uses the powder measure to do this. Since I bought everything used I didn't realize so I had to buy another set of dies last night so I could get an expanding die. So I'm out of commission for a bit anyway until the shipment arrives
     
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    VERT

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    I have learned now from experience. If you are reloading for guns with tight chambers (CZ, Walther PPQ, 1911), invest in a Wilson Cartridge gauge. There seems to be enough range brass run through Glocks and 9mm major that it can cause problems. My guns were not going into battery and the case gauge solved the problem with my 1911. The left over reloads go in the “Glock Food” pile.

    CZs need to be loaded shorter. I will admit I don’t load for CZ. Going off what I have been told by a CZ guy. OAL affects pressure. Shorter OAL = more pressure. Unique should be forgiving though.

    Unique is pretty dirty and doesn’t meter the best. But the new unique is better from what I have been told. The trend in USPSA is heavy bullet, fast powder.

    Internet reload recipes are at your own risk! Cough, cough...... that said I am using HP-38/Win231. Just because I suppose. I just opened my last 8 lb jug. HiTek Coated lead bullets. 124 grain bullet = 4.1 grains, 135 grain RN = 3.7 gr HP-38, 147 grain bullet = 3.4 grain HP-38. I am loading round nose between 1.12”-1.13”
     
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    Nepherael

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    I'm not sure how new my unique powder is since I got it with the press from a guy that's been reloading like 30 years. Super nice guy but the press was bare so over the last 2 weeks I keep finding out I'm missing one more thing to allow me to load.

    Hp-38 and win231... are these fast burning? I don't mind switching to a different powder when I can afford it, especially if unique is going to dirty the hell out of my gun.

    So far all I understand about OAL is that it can affect chambering, accuracy, and pressure. Just not the minute details as to how to find magic in the correct OAL for my gun yet. So as long as the round chambers and fires everything is good right? As in, I can always tailor it more later when I have more equipment and understanding, but as long as it plunks, chambers, and fires correctly at 1.14 I'm good right?

    Edit: just to add, I do not use range brass. All of my brass is factory ammunition once fired by me only. I train often enough that I won't have a shortage of federal brass for a long time.
     
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    VERT

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    You can look up a powder burn rate chart. HP-38 & Win 231 are the same powder. I would consider it to be medium in burn rate for a pistol powder. It had been around for years and is sort of a jack of all trades, master of none choice. Sort of like Unique in that respect. I have found it meters well and load data is easy to find. You could use it to load pretty much any pistol cartridge. With heavy bullets it shoots soft in 9mm.
     

    Steel and wood

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    I can not help you with your powder I use VV 320, so mine would be very different than yours. How I check my oal was to run it through my Dillon with out primer or powder just de- prime and re- size and then bell the case with out powder then set my Bullet then crimp it.
    Now I plunk it in my barrel and make sure it’s all the way in and then turn it, if it does not turn it’s in the rifling And needs to be shorter. And yes the shorter the bullet the more pressure you have that’s why you always start low on your charge.
    I load all my 9 mm for my CZ’s but they will will in my 1911 and my other 9 mm.
    There are better people on here that will be around that can explain it better than I am. Just start below your max load, make sure your oal is good.
    My factory loads work great in my CZ’s but not my re- loads at the same oal I had to go shorter because mine were hitting the rifling and had a hard time ejecting a loaded round to show clear.
     

    romack991

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    Unique is fine to use if you already have it but there are better options. 231 is another general powder that is okay for a lot of things but I don't think it shines anywhere.

    Titegroup is a cheap favorite but it gets the gun hot and dirty (if you care about that). N320 is another favorite, similar burn rate but doesn't get the gun as hot and runs cleaner. However, it's expensive. Sport Pistol is a newer powder that a lot of people like. If I didn't have a lifetime stock pile of Titegroup, I'd probably look at Sport Pistol.
     
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    t-squared

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    I'm also trying to understand how important OAL is in all this. I see people using a different OAL all the time. Somewhere between 1.10-1.25 in the Shadow 2 and 1.11-1.15 in everything else I see. I measured the factory loads I've been putting in it (federal) and they're 1.15 so I basically just arbitrarily chose 1.14.

    I understand that I can figure out the exact OAL for my barrel but I would rather get a load worked up that just works at first. I would also like to be making ammo that I could shoot in any of my pistols for now until I get a little more specialized.

    I hope that choosing the 1.14 OAL will suffice for that purpose.

    Check out this thread and it's excellent posts by "wobbly".....https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=34225.0
     

    Nepherael

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    Thanks for all the info guys. I was able to get back to the bench a bit today now that I have all the correct dies.

    I had loaded and crimped 50 rounds @ 1.14. I am new enough that I didn't take into account the different shoulder profile of a 115 gr federal round (1.15 OAL) to a 147 gr blue bullet RN. I had to compress them down to the 1.09-1.10 area and some are still hitting the rifling on my Shadow 2.

    I was starting to scrape some the Coatings while compressing since they were also crimped so I decided to put that 50 in a box marked for my glock 34 (they plunk and spin just fine in it).

    So now I'm back to square 1 on this load.

    I'm assuming 4-5 thousandths isn't too big a deal for pressure increase because I don't plan to reduce my charge any loading @ 1.09. The only thing that bugs me is that it has been impossible to find as extensive a load data compilation as I thought. When I look at Alliant's website they have one load for each bullet weight and type but since their OAL doesn't match mine it isn't really reliable data. Not sure how you all get around that without a chrono but I'm basically just going to load my 147's and 125's and continue with whichever one feels the best in my hands.

    Side note: the 125's are fine @1.14 OAL. Only issue so far has been having to reduce the length of the 147's.
     

    schmart

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    I've loaded several thousand Blue Bullet 147 gn truncated cone flat point bullets. I use 1.117" OAL over about 3.2 or 3.3 grains of titegroup. I know this isn't the same bullet, but shows that the required OAL does vary with the bullet profile.
    In the past I've loaded lots of ammo from 115gn 9mm, 38 spl, 357 mag, 45acp with Win 231. Based on this past history and good luck with I've tried loading 147 gn with HP-38, and although there is safe load data on the Hodgdon site, I didn't notice that it was about 100fps slower than the titegroup loads. End result was that they are too weak to cycle the slide on most of my guns. I had to put a reduced power recoil spring in to use them, however they are very soft shooting now :)

    In my research reading load data, lead bullets have always been faster than jacketed bullets with the same load. I suspect that if you load with the smallest starting load (3.8gn) for jacketed bullets you will make power factor and not have any issues w/ over pressure even with your required reduced length.

    --Rick
     

    gregkl

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    Older thread but I didn't feel the need to start a new one. I have a few 147 grain RN Blue Bullets I want to try after my failed attempts to load a bunch of Falcon coated bullets.

    Here is the issue: factory rounds and all my other bullets, 115,124,147 grain fmj have shoulders that quickly taper from .355 to.350 right out of the case. The Blue Bullets hold .355 for approximately .080" before they begin to taper when loaded to 1.128 aol.

    TO get a round to pass the plunk test, I have to shorten oal to at least 1.111. I'm using 3.0 grains of TG.

    Is it okay to run these with an oal of 1.110? Or do I need to just forget about these coated bullets and stick with something Ican load to 1.150?

    BTW, my gold dots work at 1.110 though according to the manuals, they are loaded even shorter. They don't taper as quickly. They are more like the blue bullets in that regard.
     

    schmart

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    My weekly shooting group has quite a few people running 147 gn blue bullets over TG. Personally, I use 3.2-3.3 grains at 1.14. This is a soft shooting load. Although I have no factual pressure data to back me up, given you are loading almost 10% less powder, I personally wouldn't worry at all about reducing the length to make it work in the gun. I've had to go through similar efforts with some S&S plated bullets in the past. (They have since changed the shape so that is not an issue anymore.) but I had to set them back at least as much as you are doing and never had obvious pressure issues.

    Just my 2c.
    --Rick
     

    gregkl

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    My weekly shooting group has quite a few people running 147 gn blue bullets over TG. Personally, I use 3.2-3.3 grains at 1.14. This is a soft shooting load. Although I have no factual pressure data to back me up, given you are loading almost 10% less powder, I personally wouldn't worry at all about reducing the length to make it work in the gun. I've had to go through similar efforts with some S&S plated bullets in the past. (They have since changed the shape so that is not an issue anymore.) but I had to set them back at least as much as you are doing and never had obvious pressure issues.

    Just my 2c.
    --Rick

    Thanks. I loaded those up and then some Underwood "black" 147 RNFP. I could actually load them a touch longer due to the bullet design.

    I also have some 147 FMJ that I will work on next.

    I am leaning towards just sticking with FMJ bullets. I'm not sure I want to deal with the inconsistencies I have seen in every coated bullet I have tried so far.

    Or maybe I just need to loosen up my OAL a little. Instead of finding a round an backing off .010" and running into rounds that won't chamber, maybe I should back off .013" to cover them all if that will.

    I know a ton of people load coated bullets all day long by the thousands. I'm just not sure why I can't get them to work for me like I can FMJ rounds.
     

    Hohn

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    I have several CZ’s make sure you do the plunk test most CZ need there oal shorter.

    Yes. I run my P-07 at 1.08 or so with 147s.

    4gr of BE-86 is good stuff. Haven't chrono'd it, but I'd be surprised if it didn't make Minor.

    If you are open to trying new powders, Sport Pistol from alliant is great. I run BE-86 but it's snappy.
     
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