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Thread: 350 legend

  1. #1
    Plinker BC1982's Avatar

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    350 legend

    So I had never heard of this round and saw a bolt action Ruger chambered in 350 legend. Good looking rifle with a decent price. I'm not a hunter and what info I've gathered on this round it's a good hunting round. With that being said, I have no problem shooting a hunting round at steel or paper. Is it an expensive round? Worth investing or stick to my 300 aac/5.56/30-30 rifles?

  2. #2
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    Bigtanker's Avatar

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    We've been discussing it over here >>>> https://www.ingunowners.com/forums/a...d-ar-15-a.html

    This round was made to meet the straight wall deer hunting laws in a decent number of states, Indiana included.

    As a plinker it may be a little expensive if you shoot it a bunch. But all it takes to get into the cartridge is a new barrel (or upper) for your AR-15.

    Worth investing in? Sure. Why not. It gives you a reason to but more stuff.


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  3. #3
    Expert two70's Avatar

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    The cheapest FMJ loads can be found for around $0.40 per round.

  4. #4
    Grandmaster Thor's Avatar

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    It was created by Winchester out of a .223 case but not necked down. They make boatloads of the .22 round and the new .350 would provide more stopping power and cost little for them to make with existing equipment. It should prove to be fairly affordable
    Thor himself has spoken, mere mortals must make it so. - bradmedic04

  5. #5
    Master AmmoManAaron's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor View Post
    It was created by Winchester out of a .223 case but not necked down. They make boatloads of the .22 round and the new .350 would provide more stopping power and cost little for them to make with existing equipment. It should prove to be fairly affordable
    The 350 Legend is based off the 224 Valkyrie case, not the 223 Remington. The Legend and Valkyrie both have a larger base than the 223 Rem, but have a slightly rebated rim that is the same as the 223 Rem. That design allows the same AR bolt to be used for all 3 calibers, but gives the Legend and Valkyrie slightly greater case capacity.
    "2016: The year that hackers became more trusted than government or reporters."

  6. #6
    Grandmaster Thor's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmmoManAaron View Post
    The 350 Legend is based off the 224 Valkyrie case, not the 223 Remington. The Legend and Valkyrie both have a larger base than the 223 Rem, but have a slightly rebated rim that is the same as the 223 Rem. That design allows the same AR bolt to be used for all 3 calibers, but gives the Legend and Valkyrie slightly greater case capacity.
    I guess the American Rifleman article which stated that was so was a bit misleading then. They made a specific point of referencing the production efficiencies.
    Thor himself has spoken, mere mortals must make it so. - bradmedic04

  7. #7
    Master AmmoManAaron's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor View Post
    I guess the American Rifleman article which stated that was so was a bit misleading then. They made a specific point of referencing the production efficiencies.
    I must apologize, American Rifleman and I both got it wrong - too many new cartridges that mix and match specs. There is a lot of bad info out there about the 350 Legend case and bullet diameter. I went directly to the SAAMI spec drawings and found the following:

    224 Valkyrie
    case head diameter: .4207"
    rim diameter: .422" (nominal) -.010"
    Based off of 6.8 SPC case, same case head and rim specs. Rifles use 6.8 SPC bolts

    350 Legend
    case head diameter: .3900" (9mm Luger case head is .3910" - production efficiency)
    rim diameter: .378" (nominal) -.010"
    bullet diameter: .357" (nominal) - .003"
    Actual samples measured .355" which is near the minimum SAAMI spec and common to 9mm Luger (production efficiency)

    22 Nosler
    case head diameter: .4207"
    rim diameter: .378" (nominal) -.010"
    Based off of 6.8 SPC case, rim rebated to match 223/5.56

    223 Remington and 5.56 NATO
    case head diameter: .3759"
    rim diameter: .378" (nominal) -.010"

    What a mess! Someone needs to standardize an AR platform cartridge that has a straight or slightly tapered case, uses genuine .357"/.358" rifle bullets, and preferably has a .378" rim diameter.
    "2016: The year that hackers became more trusted than government or reporters."

  8. #8
    Expert two70's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmmoManAaron View Post
    What a mess! Someone needs to standardize an AR platform cartridge that has a straight or slightly tapered case, uses genuine .357"/.358" rifle bullets, and preferably has a .378" rim diameter.
    That is probably not possible without going the rebated rim route. Even similar cartridges like the .30 carbine, .351 WSL and .401 WSL have significantly more taper than a .357" with a unrebated .378" rim would and all are held to significantly lower pressures.

    Using the .22 Nosler case would probably be the way to go to get a functional tapered case .35 with a .378" rim. That would provide similar performance to the wildcat .35 Gremlin, .35 Grendel, or .358x39 but with a better rim diameter. I doubt we will any of those standardized.

  9. #9
    Master AmmoManAaron's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by two70 View Post
    That is probably not possible without going the rebated rim route. Even similar cartridges like the .30 carbine, .351 WSL and .401 WSL have significantly more taper than a .357" with a unrebated .378" rim would and all are held to significantly lower pressures.

    Using the .22 Nosler case would probably be the way to go to get a functional tapered case .35 with a .378" rim. That would provide similar performance to the wildcat .35 Gremlin, .35 Grendel, or .358x39 but with a better rim diameter. I doubt we will any of those standardized.
    Rebated rim would be just fine, possibly even required. Two ideas I've got in mind: "357 Auto Max" and ".358/22 Nosler"

    Historically, you are correct about straight cases and feeding in semi...but somehow the 500 Auto Max works and it is a true straight case. So, I wonder how things might work if a 357 Maximum chamber reamer were used for the purpose, trim 223/5.56 brass and neck up, seat a .357"/.358" bullet, taper crimp, and let'er rip. The case body would fireform and the base of the case would be just a little bit undersized, resulting in sort of a naturally rebated rim...probably look a little odd in the case body/case base juncture area, but not unheard of - 6.5 Jap and 303 British gets a "ring" in that area after firing and is the result of a similar undersized head in an oversized chamber situation. Alternatively, you could just use 357 Max brass with the rim turned off and a new extractor groove cut. Starline makes 500 Auto Max brass (500 S&W altered in the way I just described), so they should be able to do something similar for the 357 Max.

    A .358/22 Nosler would use a 223/556 bolt, 6.8SPC mags (?), and a case length somewhere between 1.500" and 1.650". I'm thinking the shorter end of the case length range would be nice so that a wider variety of projectiles can be used. The goal would be to use 140gr -158gr .357" pistol bullets for accurate practice and varmint use and .358" 200gr RN or 225 spitzers for hunting heavier game. If 250gr spitzers could be loaded deep in the case and stabilized at subsonic velocities, that would be a bonus but not a requirement. Chamber pressure would be spec'ed at 55,000 psi consistent with the remainder of the Nosler cartridge family and the 350 Legend. While losing some case capacity compared to the 35 Remington, the increased pressure should allow the new cartridge to meet or exceed the performance of the 35 Remington, but do it in a AR pattern rifle with readily available bolts and mags. Since it would be a little bit shorter and a little bit wider than 350 Legend, it should match it's ballistic performance, but have an advantage in the projectile, bolt, and magazine departments. Thoughts?

    Completely unrelated, have you checked out the 358 Yeti? I'm kinda liking it, but would like to hear other opinions. It's not straight or tapered at all (and not legal for deer in IN), but since you are familiar with AR wildcats I wanted your thoughts on that one as well.
    "2016: The year that hackers became more trusted than government or reporters."

  10. #10
    Expert two70's Avatar

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    It's not the feeding I would be concerned with, it is the extraction but you make a great point about the 500 auto which I had forgotten about. The .45 Raptor would also be in the same category.

    The .358/22 Nosler sounds like a workable idea. It seems to me though that when a cartridge is designed to do a little bit of everything, that it rarely does any one thing particularly well. With this thought in mind, I think the better approach might be to focus on optimizing the cartridge for middle weight bullets of around 180 grains. It seems like this bullet weight would be the most all around useful to me. You could still plink with lighter pistol bullets if you wanted, though you would probably have to work to find accurate loads, and you could still use the heavier bullets if you felt the need for some reason. I doubt that it would ever really be all that commercially viable given the limited market but it would certainly be an effective cartridge and offer clear advantages over other similar cartridges.

    I'm not all that familiar with the majority of AR wildcats, but I do find the subject fascinating. I vaguely recalled hearing something about the .358 Yeti previously but I had to go look it up. I had definitely been to the website previously but I think it was still being developed when I last visited. It is an interesting cartridge for an AR if you are willing to go the custom bolt route and don't have to have a straight walled cartridge. Unless I'm missing something, it would be legal on public land in Indiana since it is under 1.8" and there is no straight wall requirement here like some other states. You can get a higher level of performance out of a .358 WSSM which is possible to put in a an AR but I only know of one source of AR uppers in that caliber and I'm not sure that source is still building them any more. Sticking with the AR platform but dropping the straight wall requirement adds the .358 SOCOM as an option. Performance wise, it probably offers the best of all worlds in an AR friendly package but not meeting the straight wall requirement for some states limits an already limited market.


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