Question: Recoil

[dross]

I bought some 9mm 65 grain Underwood self-defense ammo. Copper bullets - Xtreme Defender. Claims 1700 fps. To go along with that as practice ammo, I bought some Inceptor 65 grain, with polymer/copper bullets, claimed fps 1645 fps.

Here's the thing: The Inceptor has noticeably more recoil than the Underwood. Why would this be? I know powder charge is the other variable in the equation, but could it really be that much different given those velocities? Also, the Inceptor shot quite a bit lower.

Any thoughts from you reloading gurus?

 

[Bfish]

I have no theory but do you have a chronograph to see what they are really shooting at?

 

[dross]

I have no theory but do you have a chronograph to see what they are really shooting at?

I have a chronograph - didn't take it to the range today because I didn't expect these results. That's probably the next step.

 

[Another Bad Habit]

Load them randomly in some mags to also ensure it's not psychological, as perception is powerful

 

[dross]

Load them randomly in some mags to also ensure it's not psychological, as perception is powerful

Good advice, for sure. But on this one, I'm dead certain. First of all, I've put a bunch of rounds downrange. Second, I was expecting the polymer/copper rounds to have less recoil than the 115 grains I'd been using, and in fact they were at least as snappy. Second, when I loaded the expensive self defense rounds that should have been more snappy, the soft recoil actually surprised the hell out of me.

But you're right, in general.

 

[edwea]

Going out on a bit of a limb here, but could relate to burn rate of the powder being used.

 

[openwell]

velocity is exponential factor in recoil.
weight is directly proportional.
btw, 65gr is almost half std 115 or 124 gr. bullets and seems extreme choice?
further std vel.is 1,100 fps or so
and 1,700 seems very extreme too.

and I would not even start to look at the stress on your guns recoil spring?
if shot out of revolver my apology.

at 5 to 7 yds range keeping it on 81/2 X11 should do the job.

I just think that's too much punishment for gun & shooter.....

and my Other Handgun is 4" S&W 500 w/ 440gr cast bullets ........

 

[dross]

Figured out the issue, and boy do I feel stupid. I'm embarrassed to say what happened. I had a box of Underwood 65 grain 380 in my range bag. I'd forgotten it was there. I grabbed it instead of the 9mm. That's what I was shooting when the recoil was so much less. It was very accurate and operated the slide flawlessly, BTW. 15 rounds.

Pure operator dumbass.

 

[openwell]

Figured out the issue, and boy do I feel stupid. I'm embarrassed to say what happened. I had a box of Underwood 65 grain 380 in my range bag. I'd forgotten it was there. I grabbed it instead of the 9mm. That's what I was shooting when the recoil was so much less. It was very accurate and operated the slide flawlessly, BTW. 15 rounds.

Pure operator dumbass.

good news.
my g30 converted to 10mm
shoots 10mm & 40s&w
the extractor allows 40s&w to be fired because the cartridge is too short to headspace on case mouth.
Just fun to understand how this is possible..
btw: I do not fire 40s&w in my 10mm barrel in my g30. and 45acp in factory G30 barrel.
I have G22 the fires 40s&w very well

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Figured out the issue, and boy do I feel stupid. I'm embarrassed to say what happened. I had a box of Underwood 65 grain 380 in my range bag. I'd forgotten it was there. I grabbed it instead of the 9mm. That's what I was shooting when the recoil was so much less. It was very accurate and operated the slide flawlessly, BTW. 15 rounds.

Pure operator dumbass.

I can relate to this! I bought what I thought was a CZ-27 (.32 acp) off Gunbroker. Took it out for the first time with a buddy that had a CZ-24 (.380). The guns look pretty much identical. I couldn't get my CZ-27 to cycle for crap. Kept getting hot gases and bits of powder residue in my face when I shot it. We got to looking at both guns and discovered that I actually had a CZ-24. Dropped a .32 acp cartridge in the barrel from the muzzle end and it went in right up to the rim. Loaded up a mag of his .380 ammo and it ran like a champ.

I hadn't intended to support .380, but I took the lemons and made lemonade. Bought a Browning 10/71 from Indiucky's shop that I had admired for years but hadn't bought because it was .380.

Since that happened, I've seen at least one, and possibly other alleged CZ-27's advertised on Gunbroker. I did manage to get one seller to correct his ad after informing him that he really had a CZ-24.

 

[openwell]

I can't relate....
I'm a rifleman and hunter...
handguns have been an evolution
first revolvers
then semi-auto DA/SA
and most recently strker-fired.


You just made my day at the range go up a level........

 

[Bfish]

Just getting back to this thread, thanks for reporting back! I've not done it myself but I've seen that done... Happy it all went okay though!

 

[russc2542]

good news.
my g30 converted to 10mm
shoots 10mm & 40s&w
the extractor allows 40s&w to be fired because the cartridge is too short to headspace on case mouth.
Just fun to understand how this is possible..
btw: I do not fire 40s&w in my 10mm barrel in my g30. and 45acp in factory G30 barrel.
I have G22 the fires 40s&w very well

Technically, though they're close, .380 has a smaller case head than 9mm. .380 Probably won't come out of place in a gun but they'll pop out of the 9mm shell plate reloading.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I bought some 9mm 65 grain Underwood self-defense ammo. Copper bullets - Xtreme Defender. Claims 1700 fps.

FWIW, I've seen this used in the real world and it was not effective. The bullet fragments very early and makes a very messy, but also very shallow, wound. It did not penetrate a young girl's forearm in a near contact shot from a full sized CZ. These are marketed based on the big energy numbers, which some folks thinks equates to wounding potential. For defensive use, I think you're poorly served with these ultra-fast ultra light loads compared to the proven options, particularly in 147gr and 124+P loads.

 

[KokomoDave]

good news.
my g30 converted to 10mm
shoots 10mm & 40s&w
the extractor allows 40s&w to be fired because the cartridge is too short to headspace on case mouth.
Just fun to understand how this is possible..
btw: I do not fire 40s&w in my 10mm barrel in my g30. and 45acp in factory G30 barrel.
I have G22 the fires 40s&w very well

If 40 shoots out that platform then .357 Sig should vycle also. Higher velocity with pretty much the same recoil. It will however have much percieved muzzle blast.

 

[KokomoDave]

FWIW, I've seen this used in the real world and it was not effective. The bullet fragments very early and makes a very messy, but also very shallow, wound. It did not penetrate a young girl's forearm in a near contact shot from a full sized CZ. These are marketed based on the big energy numbers, which some folks thinks equates to wounding potential. For defensive use, I think you're poorly served with these ultra-fast ultra light loads compared to the proven options, particularly in 147gr and 124+P loads.

What are you doing shooting little kids? Geez!

 

[openwell]

If 40 shoots out that platform then .357 Sig should vycle also. Higher velocity with pretty much the same recoil. It will however have much percieved muzzle blast.

have no idea what you're talkin about?
10mm & 40 s&w are both .401 bullets. and chamber in a 10mm barrel IF held by a strong extractor like on my Glock 30 with 10mm barrel.

just like .357 mag & 38 spl are both .358 projectiles. just shorter case however both are revolver cartridges with rims naturally........

357 sig is somebodys wet dream

 

[BehindBlueI's]

What are you doing shooting little kids? Geez!

....science?