Dillon press + Lee dies...

[Maximinus Thrax]

I've been using my Lee pacesetter dies ever since I started reloading. They've worked great, love them.

Now that I have them sitting on a 750 however, I'm starting to question the "cam-over" feature that they call for in their setup. I'm wondering if it is knocking the shellplate off of level and I'm not sure how to check with any level of accuracy. Since many of you have more experience with these wonder machines than I do, I'm appealing to your experience.

A: Am I being paranoid?

B: What is the purpose of the "cam-over" in the Lee seating dies. Wouldn't proper contact with the shell plate be enough?

C: What potential issue might there be in backing the seating die off and readjusting the seating stem down to account for it? I can't think of any...

edit: spelling issue

 

[red_zr24x4]

A. Maybe
B. We have our Lee dies setup to just contact the shell plate, if at all
C. The Lee die seats and crimps in the same die. So backing the die off will decrease your crimp. Not a huge deal, ours are backed off to where we like the crimp and the stem adjusted for seating depth.
D. to most of us spelling doesn't matter(there are a few that will ***** tho)

 

[Maximinus Thrax]

A. Maybe
B. We have our Lee dies setup to just contact the shell plate, if at all
C. The Lee die seats and crimps in the same die. So backing the die off will decrease your crimp. Not a huge deal, ours are backed off to where we like the crimp and the stem adjusted for seating depth.
D. to most of us spelling doesn't matter(there are a few that will ***** tho)

A: I figured as such but it never hurts to ask
B: Interesting, I'll have to play with it.
C: According to their paperwork the Lee pacesetter dies don't seat and crimp in the same action but I'm using the factory crimp die anyway so it is of no consequence. That's why the crimp die is included in the pacesetter set.

D: My own spelling matters to me...it's a "me" thing.

 

[Fullmag]

Seen a vid from Dillion the other day on setting dies. I was curious on what they said to do. Thought it was interesting. Don’t know if Lee dies will run down enough. Said to run sizer die down till contact is made, then turn down an 1/8 to 1/4 turn. Cam up then lock down Nut on dies this centers die to case. Then on bullet seater set OAL, then put Case in sizer and a case for seater, cam up and set lock nut with both sizer and Seater with cases working in the dies. That evens the pressure on the shell plate for consistency on seater.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

I have a Lee 38 special sizer die on my dedicated 450 Dillon. With some Lee dies the lock ring will work better on the bottom of the tool holder. Especially the sizer die. I run nothing but wad cutters with this machine and I finish with a Redding taper crimp. That way you can run the short thread lee die down farther.

 

[red_zr24x4]

what we did with our Dillon and Lee dies, go to the hardware and buy thinner nuts.

 

[76Too]

Now you guys have me thinking I’ve been doing it wrong. Wouldn’t be the first time.

any chance you have a link to that video, Fullmag?

 

[craigkim]

I always had trouble getting consistent OALs when I am decapping and sizing at the same time as loading. I bought some sort of bearing setup for the shell plate and started using floating toolheads, which made a big difference. Probably not necessary for 9mm as far as accuracy, but it is still annoying. I prefer to decap/resize as one step, after wet tumble, then vibratory tumbling prior to reloading, so it eliminates that force on the shell plate and means that you have already eliminated the .380 brass, rocks, etc.

 

[Maximinus Thrax]

I have a Lee 38 special sizer die on my dedicated 450 Dillon. With some Lee dies the lock ring will work better on the bottom of the tool holder. Especially the sizer die. I run nothing but wad cutters with this machine and I finish with a Redding taper crimp. That way you can run the short thread lee die down farther.

I may have to play with that idea, lock rings on the bottom of the toolhead is interesting...

what we did with our Dillon and Lee dies, go to the hardware and buy thinner nuts.

The dillon lock rings are thin enough but don't exactly inspire confidence when compared to other lock rings. They work so I'm using them for now

I always had trouble getting consistent OALs when I am decapping and sizing at the same time as loading. I bought some sort of bearing setup for the shell plate and started using floating toolheads, which made a big difference. Probably not necessary for 9mm as far as accuracy, but it is still annoying. I prefer to decap/resize as one step, after wet tumble, then vibratory tumbling prior to reloading, so it eliminates that force on the shell plate and means that you have already eliminated the .380 brass, rocks, etc.

I'm getting weird OAL right now on my .223. I'm only a few hundred rounds into this new press so it's very much a work in progress to figure it out.


At the end of all of this I'm probably going to invest in different dies anyway but this is what I have so this is what I'll work with.

 

[craigkim]

I may have to play with that idea, lock rings on the bottom of the toolhead is interesting...



The dillon lock rings are thin enough but don't exactly inspire confidence when compared to other lock rings. They work so I'm using them for now



I'm getting weird OAL right now on my .223. I'm only a few hundred rounds into this new press so it's very much a work in progress to figure it out.


At the end of all of this I'm probably going to invest in different dies anyway but this is what I have so this is what I'll work with.

Dumb question... maybe. How are you measuring your OAL? I found that my lengths were much more consistent when I was using the Hornady comparator as opposed to just using the OAL. I still measure the OAL, but I record the OAL AND the length using the comparator in my log. This was especially true with Hornady 55 FMJ in 223.

 

[AmmoManAaron]

Dumb question... maybe. How are you measuring your OAL? I found that my lengths were much more consistent when I was using the Hornady comparator as opposed to just using the OAL. I still measure the OAL, but I record the OAL AND the length using the comparator in my log. This was especially true with Hornady 55 FMJ in 223.

Yep, it makes a difference. And that happens because the comparator is measuring from different contact points than whatever tool someone might use for COAL. The origin is small differences in the length and shape of the projectiles which results in different COAL. This tends to happen with the lower cost projectiles. Sometimes you can actually see the difference in the individual projectiles if you have them side by side.

With typical spitzer rifle bullets, the seating stem of the seating die contacts the projectile at about the same point at the comparator, so that is why you get a more consistent measurement with the comparator vs. simple COAL. FWIW, that point is also about where the projectile will first contact the rifling, so that is a good thing. Those cheaper projectiles will still have slightly different flight characteristics and in instances where you are running your loads up near maximum mag length, could cause you to have intermittent feeding issues. The distance to rifling is a bigger concern and factor in accuracy than the minor differences in flight characteristics, but a better projectile will still ultimately shoot better - all other factors being equal.

 

[Fullmag]

Now you guys have me thinking I’ve been doing it wrong. Wouldn’t be the first time.

any chance you have a link to that video, Fullmag?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=emb_rel_pause&v=GF0iyJtGtQs

 

[Maximinus Thrax]

Dumb question... maybe. How are you measuring your OAL? I found that my lengths were much more consistent when I was using the Hornady comparator as opposed to just using the OAL. I still measure the OAL, but I record the OAL AND the length using the comparator in my log. This was especially true with Hornady 55 FMJ in 223.

I've had satisfactory consistency using just OAL, Berry's 55gr fmjbt and the same dies I'm using now, just on a different press. Before spending more money, I'll try to chase down why things might be different on the 750. It's frustrating but it's how we learn about our equipment.

 

[craigkim]

I've had satisfactory consistency using just OAL, Berry's 55gr fmjbt and the same dies I'm using now, just on a different press. Before spending more money, I'll try to chase down why things might be different on the 750. It's frustrating but it's how we learn about our equipment.

If I am loading anything which I wish to be accurate, eg 77 TMK for 223, I actually disable the shell plate and lock it all the way down onto the press, which essentially renders it a single stage press... albeit with multiple stations. Between doing that and using the floating toolhead, and I forget exactly what they are called but I also use the redding micrometer seat and taper crimp dies I can get very, very accurate 223 loads. I am slow as heck doing it though.

 

[Maximinus Thrax]

If I am loading anything which I wish to be accurate, eg 77 TMK for 223, I actually disable the shell plate and lock it all the way down onto the press, which essentially renders it a single stage press... albeit with multiple stations. Between doing that and using the floating toolhead, and I forget exactly what they are called but I also use the redding micrometer seat and taper crimp dies I can get very, very accurate 223 loads. I am slow as heck doing it though.

Interesting idea...defeats my purposes for it for now but that's an interesting idea. I'll probably invest in a quality turret that does magnum rifle eventually but for now my Rock Chucker will serve me well. My current turret is straight wall pistol only.

 

[craigkim]

Interesting idea...defeats my purposes for it for now but that's an interesting idea. I'll probably invest in a quality turret that does magnum rifle eventually but for now my Rock Chucker will serve me well. My current turret is straight wall pistol only.

I was reloading yesterday and switching my press from 147 coated lead bullets to 115 FMJs. Without a comparator, attempting to measure from nose to tail, my oal appeared to vary by several thousandths spread and with the comparator it was only 2-3. Anyway I happened to think of something else that can significantly vary your oal. I apologize if this is common sense, but I have run into it personally. If you don't make the full stroke on the press EVERY time, you won't get the full seating of your bullet. I ran into this on occasion when I would try to hurry it more than I should have and didn't run the shell plate up completely into the dies. Just another possibility.

 

[Maximinus Thrax]

I was reloading yesterday and switching my press from 147 coated lead bullets to 115 FMJs. Without a comparator, attempting to measure from nose to tail, my oal appeared to vary by several thousandths spread and with the comparator it was only 2-3. Anyway I happened to think of something else that can significantly vary your oal. I apologize if this is common sense, but I have run into it personally. If you don't make the full stroke on the press EVERY time, you won't get the full seating of your bullet. I ran into this on occasion when I would try to hurry it more than I should have and didn't run the shell plate up completely into the dies. Just another possibility.

That is something I'll have to keep in mind this evening. Maybe I'm shorting it. I'm still developing my battle rhythm with this thing

 

[Fullmag]

So IÂ’m taking it that the OAL is varying on the new press. This weekend I reset my 357 dies on a 650 following the video. Then ran 30 or so, very consistent. Then seated some rounds without full length sizing or using other dies. Found that there was a .010 difference in OAL. My conclusion is that sizing and seating with the die just touching the plate makes for an even amount of pressure during processing.