5.56 Once Fired Brass Question

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  • CraigAPS

    Expert
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    3   0   0
    Jun 26, 2016
    904
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    Muncie
    I just bought some range brass from Top Gun via Gun Broker. I received it today and immediately decapped it. I was bored. :dunno: There were 20 or so cases that went into my Frankford Arsenal Decapping Tool tighter than the rest of the brass. I easily decapped them by easing the nut back and opening the collect up a little.

    So, these cases were just a bit bigger toward the base. Almost all of them are simply stamped with a T and 5.56x45. Are these possibly bulged cases? They taper from the neck to the base. It's not an overt bulge. Could they have been fired in a rifle with a looser chamber? Perhaps they were just hotter loads? What says the INGO braintrust?
     

    bigedp51

    Marksman
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    Apr 30, 2011
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    I buy bulk once fired Lake City 5.56 and 7.62 brass fired in a mutitude of chambers. I sizing them the first time using a small base die to bring them back to minimum SAAMI dimentions.

    Not all case gauges are the same diameter, below a Wilson, Dillon and JP Enterprise case gauges. The red JP Enterprise .223 gauge is smaller in diameter and the reversed case did not go in this gauge as far. After sizing I check the case in the JP Enterprise gauge and do a plop test with my loaded rounds. This insures that the resized case and loaded rounds will chamber in any rifle.

    KSB3ZvP.jpg


    Another example below a "FIRED" and unsized Lake City 7.62 case in a Dillon case gauge.

    UPCvxyL.jpg


    Below the same "FIRED" case in a JP Enterprise gauge that is smaller in diameter and the case does not drop in as far.

    zOVqgmU.jpg


    With a semi-auto, pump action or lever action the resized case body should be .003 to .005 smaller in diameter than its fired diameter. This allows the case to spring back from the chamber walls and extract reliably when fired. And in any rifle if the body diameter is not reduced in diameter enough during sizing you can end up with hard bolt lift.
     

    CraigAPS

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    3   0   0
    Jun 26, 2016
    904
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    Muncie
    Thank you both for the responses. I'll resize them, and give them a good once over before trying to load them.

    Bigedp, I had no clue there was so much variance. The pics really illustrates your points nicely!
     

    mark40sw

    Sharpshooter
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    0   0   0
    Jul 5, 2015
    697
    93
    Roanoke
    I buy bulk once fired Lake City 5.56 and 7.62 brass fired in a mutitude of chambers. I sizing them the first time using a small base die to bring them back to minimum SAAMI dimentions.

    Not all case gauges are the same diameter, below a Wilson, Dillon and JP Enterprise case gauges. The red JP Enterprise .223 gauge is smaller in diameter and the reversed case did not go in this gauge as far. After sizing I check the case in the JP Enterprise gauge and do a plop test with my loaded rounds. This insures that the resized case and loaded rounds will chamber in any rifle.

    KSB3ZvP.jpg


    Another example below a "FIRED" and unsized Lake City 7.62 case in a Dillon case gauge.

    UPCvxyL.jpg


    Below the same "FIRED" case in a JP Enterprise gauge that is smaller in diameter and the case does not drop in as far.

    zOVqgmU.jpg


    With a semi-auto, pump action or lever action the resized case body should be .003 to .005 smaller in diameter than its fired diameter. This allows the case to spring back from the chamber walls and extract reliably when fired. And in any rifle if the body diameter is not reduced in diameter enough during sizing you can end up with hard bolt lift.

    There is a difference in gauges for a purpose. Some are made with a larger diameter for primarily setting up headspace sizing, such as Wilson & Dillon.

    Other gauges are made to SAAMI chamber size to check the completed cartridge, such as Sheridan.

    https://youtu.be/Xt9JhJAQRBo
     

    bigedp51

    Marksman
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    0   0   0
    Apr 30, 2011
    149
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    There is a difference in gauges for a purpose. Some are made with a larger diameter for primarily setting up headspace sizing, such as Wilson & Dillon.

    Other gauges are made to SAAMI chamber size to check the completed cartridge, such as Sheridan.

    https://youtu.be/Xt9JhJAQRBo

    And if you notice even in the larger gauges you cant check a fired case. Meaning the gauge will not tell you the fired shoulder location so you can adjust the die for minimum shoulder bump.

    Below I'm using a Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge to measure a "FIRED" Lake City 5.56. I then set the die up for .003 shoulder bump for my AR15 rifles. I then check the resized case in the JP Enterprise gauge to ensure the case body diameter has been reduced enough to chamber and extract reliably.

    Bottom line, you cant do this with a larger diameter Wilson type gauges. And the Hornady gauge pictured below will give you a before and after sizing shoulder location. And not all chambers will have the same throat length as the Sheridan gauge. Example my Savage .223 with a 1in9 twist has a longer throat than my AR15 rifles. So no case gauge is perfect and can do everything.


    [h=1]
    OJqNmQH.jpg
    [/h]
     

    mark40sw

    Sharpshooter
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    0   0   0
    Jul 5, 2015
    697
    93
    Roanoke
    And if you notice even in the larger gauges you cant check a fired case. Meaning the gauge will not tell you the fired shoulder location so you can adjust the die for minimum shoulder bump.

    Below I'm using a Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge to measure a "FIRED" Lake City 5.56. I then set the die up for .003 shoulder bump for my AR15 rifles. I then check the resized case in the JP Enterprise gauge to ensure the case body diameter has been reduced enough to chamber and extract reliably.

    Bottom line, you cant do this with a larger diameter Wilson type gauges. And the Hornady gauge pictured below will give you a before and after sizing shoulder location. And not all chambers will have the same throat length as the Sheridan gauge. Example my Savage .223 with a 1in9 twist has a longer throat than my AR15 rifles. So no case gauge is perfect and can do everything.


    OJqNmQH.jpg

    You have a Savage .223 Rem with a longer throat than 5.56 NATO ?
     

    openwell

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    4   0   0
    Mar 31, 2014
    734
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    Carmel
    I was having trouble with using south african PMP .223 brass in my AR15.

    tried hornady case gauge that was worthless!
    turn a sized case that was a "go" and suddenly it's a "no-go"

    solved the issue quickly.

    return case gauge to cabela.

    bought RCBS .223 Rem. Small Base reloading dies.

    they size base .001 inch smaller.

    bingo......no more problems.

    BTW... I also use RCBS small base dies in .308 Win. in my semi-auto Win. 100 rifle without issues for 30 yrs or so ......too
     

    bigedp51

    Marksman
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    Apr 30, 2011
    149
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    You have a Savage .223 Rem with a longer throat than 5.56 NATO ?

    Yes my throat is longer, the early .223 rifles had a 1in12 and 1in14 twist rate and the shorter 0.0250 throat length. Many of the newer .223 rifles can have throats longer than 0.0500, this lets you use longer and heavier bullet weights. Look at line "N" freebore length and "G" freebore diameter below. Todays rifle chambers have to have room for the cartridge and the company Lawyer.

    wjAOlWq.jpg
     

    sloughfoot

    Grandmaster
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    Apr 17, 2008
    7,153
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    Huntertown, IN
    I got a few thousand pieces of 223 brass once after the FWPD ran one of their qualification days with the AR15 with like 20 Officers. I swear I could match brass to rifles by how they went through the resizing die.

    There was one rifle that made huge fired brass. The brass out of this rifle took a lot of effort in the resizing.

    I would have liked to have inspected this rifle but they were long gone by the time I started resizing.
     

    indyjohn

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    Dec 26, 2010
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    In the trees
    I got a few thousand pieces of 223 brass once after the FWPD ran one of their qualification days with the AR15 with like 20 Officers. I swear I could match brass to rifles by how they went through the resizing die.

    There was one rifle that made huge fired brass. The brass out of this rifle took a lot of effort in the resizing.

    I would have liked to have inspected this rifle but they were long gone by the time I started resizing.

    Hey old man! How you been gettin' along?
     

    sloughfoot

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    Apr 17, 2008
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    Huntertown, IN
    Hey old man! How you been gettin' along?

    I actually got up at 0430 this morning to go shoot a 80 round match at Wildcat Valley. First time in years
    Mark and I figured it was going to get rained out so we turned back to home. I think we have gotten old...

    Come up to Ft Wayne rifle and revolver on July 11 and shoot on our electronic targets. Lord only knows when we can drag our decrepit old shooting asses to atterbury for a match.

    It would be great to see you. Been a long time.

    (I did shoot a match in red wing Minnesota not too long ago but I was visiting family)
     

    indyjohn

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    Dec 26, 2010
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    In the trees
    I actually got up at 0430 this morning to go shoot a 80 round match at Wildcat Valley. First time in years
    Mark and I figured it was going to get rained out so we turned back to home. I think we have gotten old...

    Come up to Ft Wayne rifle and revolver on July 11 and shoot on our electronic targets. Lord only knows when we can drag our decrepit old shooting asses to atterbury for a match.

    It would be great to see you. Been a long time.

    (I did shoot a match in red wing Minnesota not too long ago but I was visiting family)

    You made the right choice to disengage, it rained a bunch.

    The last time I was in Ft Wayne was 1999 to buy the only National Match Armalite in the state that summer (Ft. Wayne Firearms had it).

    I've been distracted with other things for some time, the last Atterbury match I shot was a mid range in the summer of 2016. Here's me on KD6 in January of that year on invitation of CIHPRS leadership to test the new electronic targets. I'm sporting a M1903 National Match Special. You'll notice the shot was a 9 at 9 o'clock.

    1903at-Atterbury02062016bsmall.jpg
     
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