A Couple (Probably Dumb) Newbie Reloader Questions

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • CraigAPS

    Expert
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Jun 26, 2016
    900
    18
    Muncie
    So, I got my tiny bench built this weekend :rockwoot: and am getting things set up. While I'm doing things around the house, I tend to let YouTube videos play. I caught a couple that talked about cleaning new dies before use. Is this recommended? It wasn't in the Lee die material nor either of the manuals I read. I assumed rifle dies would need cleaned at some point due to case lube, but do pistol dies need cleaned prior to use? I realize they are shipped with a rust prohibitor. If I clean this off, what's the best thing to use to keep the steel from rusting? I should note that I did wipe at the powder through expanding die insert as Lee instructed prior to installing the powder measure.

    If it's necessary, what's the best thing to use to clean? The videos I caught suggested tubb in ng alcohol or mineral spirits/paint thinner. I have both. I've seen other forum posts here and elsewhere about using Break Kleen or gun cleaner. I have the latter but not the former. Would getting a gun cleaner inside the die get transferred to the case and begin corroding it, since it's formulated to removed lead, copper, etc. from barrels?

    When working up a load, how many rounds per charge do you shoot? I'm about half an hour away from a range. So, I plan on loading several different charges, then seeing which one works best. Also, how many charges do you test at a time?

    I think that's it for now. I'll probably make your heads hurt some more as I go along this new (to me) path! :D Despite it's size (2'x2' with a couple shelves in the back), the bench is doing well. I made a dummy round as I was setting things up on the press, which I had to redo because I failed to put the powder measure on first. :ugh: Live and learn! Thanks in advance for any tips!
     

    GSPBirdDog

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 100%
    55   0   0
    Mar 21, 2010
    565
    43
    Henryville
    Welcome to reloading! No question is a dumb question. Most of everyone on the forum is here to help no matter what as we were all there ourselves. For cleaning the new dies, I use ISO-HEET found in automotive sections. It is %99 iso alcohol. You can also use mineral spirits or anything of the such. You mainly want to clean the inside of the dies in case any oils have built up from the factory. I lightly lubricate the outside of the dies with Hornady one shot cleaner due to acids in your fingers will make the dies rust.
    Keep in mind that taking your dies apart to clean allows you to understand how they work as well.

    For working up loads, that all depends what you are loading for. For semi auto pistols and rifles, i tend to load 5-10 rounds of each charge. This will allow you to make sure they feed and cycle the firearm. Also, many times is can be hard to find the spent case to check for over pressure signs, so the more the merrier! For revolvers and bolt guns, i tend to load 3-5 rounds per powder charge.

    A good investment would be a chronograph also. They really bring insight when working up loads.

    ALWAYS FOLLOW A RELOADING MANUAL AND ALWAYS START AT THE LOWEST RECOMMENDED CHARGE WEIGHT AND WORK UP!

    Have fun and stay safe! Never hesitate to ask a question!
     

    openwell

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Mar 31, 2014
    734
    34
    Carmel
    yep......there are dumb.....
    questions.........
    & answers tooooooo.

    most (all) modern reloading dies are
    hardened steel. some claimed "chrome" in days gone by.

    the reason to clean them initially BEFORE FIRST USING them; especially the sizing die is to remove any polishing compound used to finish the die.
    so it does NOT block the "vent hole(s)".

    RCBS dies include that info in instructions. so read intructions.
     

    openwell

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Mar 31, 2014
    734
    34
    Carmel
    as to type of solvent don't get too deep.
    mineral spirits will do.

    petroleum(synthetic also) based oils
    should only be used 4 long-term storage. with mineral spirits used before re-using 'em.

    the case lubes on non-carbide dies are either water based or wax based(makes for cleaning). so cleaning with dry q-tips is all I routinely do.
     

    openwell

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Mar 31, 2014
    734
    34
    Carmel
    number of test rounds depends on type of load? hunting? plinking? target?
    best & fastest?
    or moderate, so you get maximum life from your weapons & brass.

    no magic number....
    just enjoy it.

    save & label your targets.

    most of my evaluation of loads come aferwards.......@home

    have fun
     

    JeepHammer

    SHOOTER
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Aug 2, 2018
    1,904
    83
    SW Indiana
    1. When in doubt, clean it out.

    Anti-rust coatings can cause brass to stick in the dies, always a good idea to look for FOD (Foreign Objects Debris).
    Lube will dry and build up in the dies, including vent holes, that needs to be cleaned regularly.

    Brake cleaner strips off nearly anything/everything, so it works pretty well and is available.
    Just have something like WD-40 or the like to immedately coat the tool steel dies are made of.
    It rusts nearly instantly...

    If you want to stop rust dead in it's tracks, Casey Birchwood brand Barricade stops rust from 6 months to a year, depending on humidity.

    2. When you crank out test rounds,
    For a rifle, I do at least 10, usually more like 20.
    3 to 5 round groups, let's you know if you are getting close when fired off a solid rest/bench.

    Most people don't have an idea of how much work & records keeping is involved in developing a load for a specific rifle...
    One variable at a time, do the test groups, then make ONE change, test again.

    ---------------

    With respect,
    What I recommend for students is get a case gauge with shoulder stop,
    Get an ACCURATE measuring device, with standards to check the measuring device,
    And learn to make CONSISTENT brass.

    Brass, being the base for your ammo,
    The case gauge shoulder is an analog for your chamber.

    Measure from shoulder to face of the head (head stamp surface),
    And from shoulder to case mouth on the other end of the brass.
    The case gauge will also get you in the ballpark of case diameter, etc.
    There are a bunch of different specification case gauges, you can learn about this as you go, the basic $20 gauge is the place to start.

    Good measuring devices (caliper, micrometer, powder scale) are pretty much mandatory if you are serious.
    The guys cranking out short range hunting loads the usual low end stuff will do, but if you intend to be serious, these are things you won't want to cheap out on...
    'Minute Of Deer Heart' isn't difficult, sub MOA is more difficult.


    To knock it down, build from brass up, the loaded round is finished product, don't rush things, learn from experience and ask questions! :)
     

    Fullmag

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    15   0   0
    Sep 4, 2011
    1,956
    74
    First time setting up dies 5 or 10 for semi-autos. Have had feeding problems due improper sizing. Agree also with notes or log book. Mistakes are
    repeatable. Set up dies for 223 last week and made different mistakes than before so that I called that progress. This time I made notes of what went good and bad. Notes on range sessions have found it makes for good reading on cold winter days.
     

    openwell

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Mar 31, 2014
    734
    34
    Carmel
    sorry......
    can't wait 'til winter to read range data since it's July!
    as for makin new mistakes as progress......
    please don't go to the IDNR range U use!

    as that's foolishness.......

    also, Cartridge gauges other than calipers are a waste of money for riflles or pistols.

    your cartridges are fire formed perfectly for your chamber and that only requires you to check OAL measurement max/trim to.

    as for cleaning dies, Lee manual suggests that some debris on cases is beneficial to avoiding "stuck" rifle or pistol cases that are not "carbide" sizing dies.

    have fun & learn but keep mistakes out of the process.
     

    JeepHammer

    SHOOTER
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Aug 2, 2018
    1,904
    83
    SW Indiana
    And Openwell has his opinion... And is entitled to it.

    I would point out that *IF* cases were 'Perfectly Fire Formed' they would feed like new.
    They won't...

    Even if the case head to shoulder (Datum Line) were matched to the firearm chamber, the case neck has to be resized to accept/hold another bullet.

    -----------------

    Now, if you make ammo that goes in more than one firearm, the brass has to fit every firearm, and no two chambers are identical.
    In fact, you *Should* probably make SAAMI specification ammunition so it fits every chamber sized for that caliber.

    I shoot a LOT of .224 & .308 in several different firearms,
    The tack drivers get loads specifically for them, but about all my rifles are sub MOA, and all will shoot really well with my 'Standard' match grade ammo.
    Once you understand how to make the brass SAAMI specification, the rest falls in line.

    Now, I don't expect everyone to do things exactly like I do, not even close.
    I do find people arguing the very basics of bending brass back into shape fairly odd...
    It's basic metallurgy, shaping, and it's pretty standard stuff, one of the oldest science issues, so it's nailed down already.
     

    Fullmag

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    15   0   0
    Sep 4, 2011
    1,956
    74
    Must clarify and explain, mistakes are repeatable. If you do not learn from a mistake it will be repeated. Smashed cases, over belled case mouths or primers not loaded or something stuck and primer system is not feeding so powder is going out of cases. Some problems setting up straight wall cases some bottle necked case.

    Have a had much trouble following the advice of You do not need a case gauge, use calipers, with 45 acp 200Gr SWC and 185gr SWC. Bought a case gauge and had not those problems since. Any idea why?

    As far as Making mistakes as foolishness... there is an old saying...If your NOT making mistakes, then your not doing anything.
    Another one, Want to know something. Ask a 16 year old, they know everything.

    Not sure if you are trying be funny but Check your advice it is dangerous and flawed. Bottle necked cases, neck sized not full length sized, are for one gun only. Fire formed cases are very much for a special chambering. Any ideas why? Not being contemptuous at all. There a people out there coming this site for solid advice some do not have enough experience to know which is good or bad.

    Maybe U should tell us when U are going to the range.
     

    CraigAPS

    Expert
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Jun 26, 2016
    900
    18
    Muncie
    I appreciate all of the info and advice, thus far! INGO rocks!

    I've seen both CASE gauges and CARTRIDGE gauges mentioned. I'm starting out with 9mm only. I was planning on using calipers for OAL measurements and my gun's barrel (removed) as a cartridge gauge. Down the road,when I begin loading. 223, I was planning on getting a case gauge for piece of mind, if nothing else. I know I'll be full-length sizing, as they will be used in my AR.

    My current load plan, if you will, will be to load 5 rounds each in varying powder charges (4.6, 4.8, 5.0, 5.2, and 5 4) based off of the load data for Speer CPRN from Alliant's site and the manuals I have. I'm using Unique and Berry's 115 bullets. Max charge, according to my info, is 6 gr. Plus, I've seen some recipes on here that people have had luck with these bullets using 5.0-5.1 gr.
     

    rb288

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Apr 14, 2019
    309
    63
    Grovertown
    I have been reloading for about 5 years now, so I'll give you my thoughts on your questions.
    1st, there are no dumb, silly, questions when reloading. If you are uncertain ask, things might get nasty if you don't, totally, understand what you are doing.
    I, always do a quick "cleaning" of new dies and every couple hundred rounds made.
    Just a quick ride down with alcohol, mineral spirits, etc. gets the oils and manufacturing gunk off before you use them.
    Then clean them to get any lubes out every couple hundred rounds.
    I used to make up 5 round groups, and, I suppose, it is better to test with more rounds, but, I dropped to 3 round groups for the initial velocity and accuracy testing because it was quicker and less demanding on my limited supplies.
    I can get close to finding velocity nodes and can get pretty close to finding accuracy nodes as well.
    Once I have narrowed a load down, then I'll go back to 5 or 10 round loads to zero in on my choice load.
     

    shibumiseeker

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    49   0   0
    Nov 11, 2009
    10,706
    113
    near Bedford on a whole lot of land.
    I have been reloading for about 5 years now, so I'll give you my thoughts on your questions.
    1st, there are no dumb, silly, questions when reloading. If you are uncertain ask, things might get nasty if you don't, totally, understand what you are doing.
    I, always do a quick "cleaning" of new dies and every couple hundred rounds made.
    Just a quick ride down with alcohol, mineral spirits, etc. gets the oils and manufacturing gunk off before you use them.
    Then clean them to get any lubes out every couple hundred rounds.
    I used to make up 5 round groups, and, I suppose, it is better to test with more rounds, but, I dropped to 3 round groups for the initial velocity and accuracy testing because it was quicker and less demanding on my limited supplies.
    I can get close to finding velocity nodes and can get pretty close to finding accuracy nodes as well.
    Once I have narrowed a load down, then I'll go back to 5 or 10 round loads to zero in on my choice load.

    Accuracy REALLY cannot be gauged by only 3 round groups initially. While choosing to go to 10 round groupings based on the results of a 3 round ladder test may find an accurate loading, it's also just as likely to miss good loadings. There is a LOT of statistical logic behind this, and when I am working up a precision load, 5 round is the minimum for a quick check and 10 or even 20 is best.
     

    Fullmag

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    15   0   0
    Sep 4, 2011
    1,956
    74
    I appreciate all of the info and advice, thus far! INGO rocks!

    I've seen both CASE gauges and CARTRIDGE gauges mentioned. I'm starting out with 9mm only. I was planning on using calipers for OAL measurements and my gun's barrel (removed) as a cartridge gauge. Down the road,when I begin loading. 223, I was planning on getting a case gauge for piece of mind, if nothing else. I know I'll be full-length sizing, as they will be used in my AR.

    My current load plan, if you will, will be to load 5 rounds each in varying powder charges (4.6, 4.8, 5.0, 5.2, and 5 4) based off of the load data for Speer CPRN from Alliant's site and the manuals I have. I'm using Unique and Berry's 115 bullets. Max charge, according to my info, is 6 gr. Plus, I've seen some recipes on here that people have had luck with these bullets using 5.0-5.1 gr.

    Do you have another powder? Unique from my experiences is mostly good and versatile but finicky in powder measures. The plastic Lee measures run it really well but Hornady or RCBS not as easy. Seen your in Muncie are going to MTCC or Farmland CC?
     

    CraigAPS

    Expert
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Jun 26, 2016
    900
    18
    Muncie
    Do you have another powder? Unique from my experiences is mostly good and versatile but finicky in powder measures. The plastic Lee measures run it really well but Hornady or RCBS not as easy. Seen your in Muncie are going to MTCC or Farmland CC?

    Actually, I have the Lee autodrum powder measure with the plastic drum inserts. I picked up a Lee Value turret press kit. The accounts of Unique metering well in the autodrum and the relatively large size of the granules is what drove me to that powder. I figured it'd be tougher to double charge a 9mm case.

    I typically go to New Castle and shoot at VRA for pistol only or Wilbur Wright for pistol and rifle.
     

    CraigAPS

    Expert
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Jun 26, 2016
    900
    18
    Muncie
    Accuracy REALLY cannot be gauged by only 3 round groups initially. While choosing to go to 10 round groupings based on the results of a 3 round ladder test may find an accurate loading, it's also just as likely to miss good loadings. There is a LOT of statistical logic behind this, and when I am working up a precision load, 5 round is the minimum for a quick check and 10 or even 20 is best.

    I've seen accounts of some people doing ten one round loads in order to do a ladder test to find the most accurate nodes, then narrow down with more rounds in those charge weights. Not something I'd be comfortable with at this point, but an interesting thought.
     

    shibumiseeker

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    49   0   0
    Nov 11, 2009
    10,706
    113
    near Bedford on a whole lot of land.
    I've seen accounts of some people doing ten one round loads in order to do a ladder test to find the most accurate nodes, then narrow down with more rounds in those charge weights. Not something I'd be comfortable with at this point, but an interesting thought.

    Generally people who are doing that have patterned their rifles pretty well. For those folks, 3 rounds per rung is plenty and when using a known combination but wanting to tweak one variable then single rounds can work. For working up new loads for a new reloader it will not be optimal. Will it work? Yes. But as I said, it also stands an equal chance of missing out.
     

    tsilveus

    Marksman
    Rating - 100%
    13   0   0
    Jun 4, 2014
    232
    43
    United States
    I just (after about 4k rounds) fully cleaned all of my dies. Would wipe down and cotton swab after each session but not disassemble. Last week I took them apart and put them in the sonic cleaner with some hornady part solution. Air compressed them and then wiped down with some remoil. Good as new. A lot more debris and dirt/unwanted material came out than I expected.
     

    JeepHammer

    SHOOTER
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Aug 2, 2018
    1,904
    83
    SW Indiana
    I do volume case reconditioning, and by no means should you *Think* you 'Need' what I have to do your home loads...

    'Straight' walled pistol brass,
    This is 'Cartridge Brass', and alloy of copper, zinc, and some other base materials in very small quantities.
    It's crystalline in nature, abrasive, it WILL wear on tool steel dies,
    And it's galling/sticky, sticks to die bodies.

    Using some lube (lots of people don't use lube on pistol brass) will help keep both abrasion/wear to a minimum on the dies,
    And it will help stop the buildup of brass out of the die.

    Every so often, I clean my dies with a 'Brass Buster', usually something with ammonia, just like copper busting bore cleaner in the firearm barrels.
    Then I IMMEDIATELY coat the dies with a corrosion preventer and put them up for the next use.

    There is no 'Datum Line' on common straight walled pistol brass, it's a single measurement for length from case head to mouth straight up the side wall.
    A straight walled pistol brass case gauge block is a 'Quick Check' to have a visual/feel reference if the case is too long or too short for SAAMI standards.
    It's faster than a caliper or micrometer.
    It also will let you know *IF* the case is oversized (won't drop into the die fully) or pressed undersized (falls into gauge, moves side to side).

    There are a BUNCH of case gauges that are different sized, allows you to quick check your cases with 'Looser' or 'Tighter' tolerances,
    Usually minimum or maximum SAAMI recommended specifications since SAAMI makes the standards for all sporting ammunition in the US.
    This is in spite of the guys telling you to just 'Bang On It' until it more or less fits into the chamber...

    -----------------

    What I do with students,
    Hand them a case gauge, and tell them to make brass that fits the case gauge well.
    Not just brass you can force into, or sloppy drop the case into, but fits well.

    The idea is to get them aware of the variables of bending brass, some case walls aren't 'Straight' (right angle to head) and have a slight taper,
    Some will have a swell/bloating just above the case head (case wall in propellant chamber) that *Should* be addressed...
    (So you don't get 'Coke Bottle' shaped cartridges when the bullet is pressed in)

    As the case swells/bloats to fill the chamber while pressure rises to force the bullet down the barrel,
    The case walls get slightly thinner to accommodate that bloating.
    When you force that bloating/swelling back into shape, the extra brass has to go somewhere, it's pushed up towards case mouth, and the case gets longer...
    This is the reason for the length check.

    You *Can* trim the excess off, but most people just toss the case since when a short pistol brass has that much displaced brass, the side walls are getting thin and you don't want a blown out case.

    If you find your firearm is producing swollen/bloated cases, there is a simple die (often called a 'Bulge Buster') that works with common hand presses that pushes the case walls back in on 'Rimless' (semi-auto) cases. The case will get slightly longer when the bulge is formed out, but that's OK if the pass the length check.

    Extractor claws will sometimes pull the head rim down, you get a case that's no longer flat across the head stamp surface,
    And ejectors will hammer the head stamp surface punching brass where it doesn't belong.
    Again, you *Can* fix these issues with some specialized equipment, but it's easier to just toss the case in the recycle bucket when it's a common round easily replaced.
    It's just something to watch for in inspections.

    --------------------

    The two most common case gauges are length/diameter, the common analog for a chamber that let's you determine if the diameter was reduced enough, and to measure length.

    The second most common is a case/cartridge profile/side of the body gauge.
    It will have the side wall partly cut away so you can see the case wall in the gauge.
    It allows you to see where the case contacts the die when it's too big, and where it pulls away from the gauge wall where the case is too small.
    This allows you to adjust, or change dies to make a more accurate (to SAAMI specification) case/loaded round.

    Keep in mind...
    Everytime the case is worked or fired, the brass changes, becomes more stressed ('Hardened') and will resist resizing.
    The 'Harder' (more stressed) the brass, the more it will 'Rebound', resist proper sizing.
    This is why a lot of us keep track of how many times each batch of brass gets loaded/fired.

    I use an ink pad to color heads for the number of reloads, color coding was the cheapest, fastest, most reliable way to keep track when I did small batches, and the old ink usually comes off in cleaning so the case takes new ink before lube.

    *IF* the brass is all the same make, it will harden more or less the same as it's reused, so you might have to adjust dies for how stressed/hard the brass is to make it useable again, but it's usually a single adjustment for each batch, not each brass.

    Most home reloaders call Rebound "Spring Back", the case trying to take the fired shape back instead of accepting sizing...
    'Spring Back' isn't the correct term, but it's in common usage so I've learned to deal with it over time.

    Again, I don't expect you to run out and buy a volume heat annealer for common 9mm cases,
    But proper heat annealing reduces the stress,

    And if you continue the heat treating, you can get the case back to 99% of new condition as far as stress/rebound goes.
    I don't anneal common pistol cases, just toss them when they become problems or start to stress crack...
    But when I do rifle cases, I anneal every case simply because of the volume I do, it's easier to 'Zero' the case back to 'Like New' and have a consistent product out the back end than to gauge every case, and send the 'Rebounds' back through, gauge again, and/or make adjustments to dies for problem cases.
    When you knock them out at 3,000/hour you REALLY don't want a pile of 'Problem Cases' to deal with, each one by hand...
    So heat treating in the front end is faster, less work in the long run.

    It's something to do a little research on if you intend to do rifle, particularly rifle that costs a crap load of money. P
    roper annealing/heat treating makes those expensive/exotic cases last MUCH longer...

    -----------------

    Beginners usually start with an 'All In One' sizing die, which is just fine for most pistol brass.
    A 'Bulge Buster' if you are finding bulges, then decap/sizing die.
    About as simple as it gets.

    Where most novices get into trouble is listening to the 'Internet Experts'...
    A little DRY case lube hurts nothing, and while not a 'Requirement' you will find the cases size much smoother,
    You will find the mouth belling (expander) rod doesn't stick in the case neck.
    This is a particularly frustrating problem if you use an expander that's attached to a powder thrower!
    Powder throwers (charge throwers) don't like to be yanked around on, so the case sticking and having to be yanked off can mess with the powder charge weights...

    DO NOT OVER EXPAND!
    It doesn't take much to get that bullet started, and over expansion is over working the brass.
    Everything you bend out, you have to bend back in during the 'Crimp' process.

    Square back bullets are often 'Cheap', but a little radius on the back end of the bullet makes the bullet seating process easier...
    With square back (punched) bullets, you have to expand further, the square edge often deforms the case.

    ----------------

    One thing to keep in mind once you get some experience,
    Dies are cheap for a reason... (One size fits nothing exactly, it's a 'General Use' design).
    Dies are NOT sacred, feel free to modify for your particular brass.

    Necks come out too small (undersize) feel free to open the neck of the die up.
    The expander rod not making the case the correct internal size (common in 'Coke Bottle' rounds), feel free to shape the expander so it fits well down the case, with a tapered shoulder to make the bell mouth for YOUR cases.
    In rifle brass, expander ball making necks too large, make the ball smaller (reduces need for crimping).

    I have dies modified for specific brand of brass, different case wall thicknesses, bullets I'm going to load, etc.
    You will spot these shortcomings as you gain experience...
    At $20-$25 a SET, small parts even cheaper, you can do some 'Fiddling' to get exactly what you want.
    If you screw it up, it's a $20 mistake, about anyone can afford that...

    Now, if you want to work a die, or die components, you will need a couple of things.

    A hand drill, wooden dowel rod that fits in the drill chuck, some sand paper to work down the wooden dowel rod to size, and lapping compound (basically, paste sand 'paper')

    To make the expander ball (in rifle cases) slightly smaller, a piece of leather (old belt?), And lapping compound on the leather.
    Chuck the expander rod/ball up in the drill, spin it while holding the leather/lapping compound to it.
    GO SLOW, measure often.
    You are dealing with the CIRCUMFERENCE/AREA of a circle, that whole π R Squared thing comes into play,
    A tiny amount removed makes a HUGE difference.
    By reducing the expander ball, about 90% of crimping bolt firearms goes out the window, you are simply increasing the grip the case gets on the bullet.
    Many semi-auto will still need a crimp...

    With pistol cases I use a contrast color, (sharpie, dykem) something on the expander rod, then spin a BRAND NEW case brand/type on the rod. New case size is what your are shooting for (SAAMI spec) so using an already altered case defeats the purpose.

    It will remove contrast color from the rod, and I know where to take off a little of the rod.
    The idea is to get the rod expanding the the case body to correct size, not just flair the mouth.
    When the rod just barely bottoms out, and the rod contacts the inside of the case evenly, then you get pretty much 'New' sized cases.

    Many expander rods on pistol brass are UNDERSIZED, you push the case walls in with the sizing die, and the expander rod doesn't push them back out to SAAMI spec, you get a 'Coke Bottle' sidewall round.
    Correct size at the head where the die couldn't reach, sidewalls pushed too far in, undersize expander won't push them back out, but the bullet expand mouth to full size... 'Concave', or 'Coke Bottle' sides...
    Which SUCKS!

    *IF* you have a bunch of this brass, then you simply do one of two things,
    1. Contact the die manufacturer and see if they have a wider expander rod that pushes the walls out where they belong.
    2. Open the case forming die up with wooden dowel rod, lapping compound so the case doesn't get pushed too far in to begin with.
    You will do a lot of sanding the rod down to snuggle fit in the die, and you will have to go very slow, clean & check the die often to get exactly what you want.

    Since every brass manufacturer has their own wall thickness, the 'One Size Fits Nothing Well' dies often need help brand to brand.
    It used to be everyone found or made dies to fit military brass, and a second set for SAAMI/civilian brass, the military tending to often have thicker brass walls...
    This can still be seen in civilian/SAAMI .308 Win vs. 7.62x51mm milbrass case volume.
    Relatively the same outside shape/size, less case volume in milbrass (and therefore higher pressures when loaded the same).

    Since 2012 ATK/Federal got the milspec changed on 5.56x45mm, so they are now identical to civilian/SAAMI .223 Rem brass.
    You still have to watch for Winchester produced 5.56mm NATO brass (WCC head stamp) which are the older, smaller volume cases,
    While WCC doesn't make milbrass/ammo anymore, there is still a crap load of it in circulation.
    It's not as big of a deal as 7.62/.308 since there isn't as much propellent to begin with, but it can cause cycling problems (failure to feed) in semi-autos.

    -----------------------

    One 'Tip' for novices concerning pistol propellants,
    When I teach, I use a bulky propellant, something that fills the case so it runs over when double charged, and undercharges are obvious.
    The new, high powered propellants will let you load more round per pound, but they will also let you load a double charge and the bullet still fit...

    Some of the older, bulkier powders are cheaper, so cost often works out, it's the safety issue I address with the bulkier powders when teaching, a little extra cost for the safety is worth it. ;)
     
    Last edited:
    Top Bottom