Reloadable .17 Cal 'Fun Guns'...?

[JeepHammer]

I have STUPID amounts of fun with .17 HMR, but not being reloadable makes me feel it's wasteful.

I know a lot of people now days don't have that feeling, but I'm from a different generation.
With the cost/supply of .17 HMR ammo, the difference in the way different brands shoot, I have wondered several times why not look into a reloadable .17 Cal...

I mostly hang around with folks my own age,
And I hang around with folks with my interests,
So I don't really have my finger on the 'Pulse' of the 'Masses'.

I hang around with older, country, Machinist/Firearms, competition or former military types,
SO,
It's no surprise we have the same viewpoints on firearms, what's fun, what's serious, etc.

Before firearms became a fad or status symbol, we used what 'Grandpa' had on the rack,
We used it for it's intended purpose, hunting or varmint control,
Single shots or short magazine fed were perfectly acceptable...

The OBJECTIVE was to put meat on the table, or remove pests/predators, and we didn't need (or want) a heavy, shoulder fired cannon to shoot rats/ground hogs, or blow rabbits/squirrels apart when we intended to eat them!

I was shooting the bull with a few guys recently when we got on the subject of small caliber, reloadable rounds that were quite effective in our youth,
And everyone, to a man, had one or two still laying around, so we just got together to do a little shooting.
And BOY! Was it just plain stupid amounts of fun!

With rimfire ammo costing per round what a small reload costs (or more), this is what some of the guys showed up with...
I have always been a fan of .218 Bee, and it's rimless cousin, .219 Zipper (although I don't have a .219 Zipper currently).

.218 ammo is stupid cheap to reload, since it's supposed to be cast bullets, and casting is always cheaper than buying jacketed bullets.
Useable case capacity is about 1cc, so you get a LOT of rounds per pound of propellant.
It still costs one primer per round, no way to make that cheaper...

A .17 Ackley Bee showed up, the necked down version of .218 Bee that fires a .172 Diameter bullet,
A .17 Mach IV showed up, which I hadn't actually ever seen in person before, the necked down & shortened .222 parent case.
Lots of rimmed and rimless .22s showed up, there is a TON of those rounds throughout history, so you just don't know what you are going to stumble onto!

We all pretty much agreed that something LESS than a .222, it didn't have to be 'Older', just smaller or less power/powder.

At that get together, we started a conversation about what currently common (inexpensive) cases could be formed into something reloadable that was equal to, or a little more than, the current rimfires...
Since (rimmed) .218 Bee cases are STUPID expensive, that one is pretty much out, unless it catches on and prices come down.

The shortened, necked down .222/.223 to .17 Cal would provide endless, affordable brass...
Knock case volume down to about 1cc, and you have something smaller than the .17 Mach IV.
Shortening the .17 Mach IV to get case volume down to 1cc or slightly over *Might* cause feed issues, might as well go to a single shot/rimmed round...

So the idea of maybe a pistol case being necked down came up, but we couldn't come up with anything small in diameter and long enough...
About the diameter of a .25 ACP but usable powder chamber about twice as long...
Just couldn't think of anything that might fit, could be necked down for .17 projectile.
(It would have to be longer, anyone that reloaded .25 ACP knows what a pain that small, short case is to deal with!)

Any idea on something that's just a little bigger than .17 HMR and reloadable? (Rimmed or not)

I really like my little gnat killer/mouse mangler, I just wish it was reloadable...

 

[Bigtanker]

There is always the .17 Incinerator.

 

[JeepHammer]

I think you might have missed the point....

 

[patience0830]

I turned .221 fireball cases into .20 VarTarg. Kinda the best of both worlds. 'Cept cast might not do as well as the Bee. Don't know, but casting .17 bullets might drive a feller right off his rocker.

Thought the Mach 4 was a Fireball case necked down to .17?

 

[patience0830]

.17 Hornet is another possibility. Or the Ackley variant.

 

[EyeCarry]

Bigtanker meant to say the .17 Incinerator Improved, pushing Mach 5.5. and it's a pretty pointy projectile too.
To your point OP. You mentioned some stuff I've never heard of. I'm an older guy but fairly new to a lot of this stuff. Sounds like you and your friends have rediscovered a new passion.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

We form, load and shoot for a few small ones, quite few 17's, 19's and a 20.

Heres little, a Hornet case with about a 1/2" cut off and necked down to 17, The other is a 218 Bee case necked down to 17 and blown out. We have a bunch of Redding and Bullberry forming dies.

View attachment 88816

I can push the little 17 3,600 with a 15 grain Berger and the Bee case 4,000 with a 18 grain Berger.

 

[JeepHammer]

It was just plain fun blowing up cups of water, punching holes in paper, generally seeing what the little rounds could do without busting shoulders, eardrums or budget.

'Pea Shooters', 'Cockroach Killers'... I've heard tons of names when everything went to 'Bigger' & 'Faster', it's just fun to shoot.
What no one called them them was 'Inaccurate', even the very old versions are often inherently pinpoint accurate.

It's more of a 'Wild Catter' thing than just reloading, so I wasn't sure anyone else would be interested.

 

[jamesb]

I form and reload the
17 squirrel (22 hornet)
17 Ackley Hornet (22 hornet)
17 Fireball (5.56)

The Sensational Seventeens by Todd Kindler is a good read.
Lots of options in 14, 17, and 19 cal for little fast pills.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

I form and reload the
17 squirrel (22 hornet)
17 Ackley Hornet (22 hornet)
17 Fireball (5.56)

The Sensational Seventeens by Todd Kindler is a good read.
Lots of options in 14, 17, and 19 cal for little fast pills.

Hey James, you are the reason I bought the Bullburry double ended forming dies...

 

[JeepHammer]

I'm not looking for the barn burners,
Rifling doesn't last 100 years that way...

Popped a ground hog on Sunday with a Stevens Favorite bored to .22 WMR, another fun little rifle.

I can form .22LR/.22WMR into bullet jackets, all I do is split the .17WMR cases...

Maybe I need some NEW DIES! For .17 HMR.
Always happy to have a reason for new dies!

 

[db308]

Cosner's in Bedford had a used Savage .17 Hornet on the rack awhile back.. Heavy bbl, laminate stock.

 

[johntheplinker]

Maybe a 30 carbine cut back a little then necked down? Regular 30 case capacity is 1.4 cc so knock off maybe 1/2"? Then you run into the oddball head size so no just rebarreling any old bolt action.

A single shot using one of the 327 caliber (327 Fed Mag, 32 H&R, 32 S&W, etc) handgun cases necked down would be simple also.

 

[DRob]

We shoot .17 Fireball. It's a great little round and can be loaded to push a 20 gr VMax to around 4000 FPS. In an effort to increase barrel and brass life, I load it fairly conservatively. Don't have a chrono but I'm guessing around 3500-3600 FPS per published data. Sadly, factory ammo doesn't exist and the brass is no longer produced. I am sitting on enough new brass to last longer than I do. I've heard the brass can be made from .223 cases but I'm not trying that. The .17 Hornady Hornet made a splash a while back but seems to have disappeared lately. It was a tad slower than the Fireball in factory loads.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

We shoot .17 Fireball. It's a great little round and can be loaded to push a 20 gr VMax to around 4000 FPS. In an effort to increase barrel and brass life, I load it fairly conservatively. Don't have a chrono but I'm guessing around 3500-3600 FPS per published data. Sadly, factory ammo doesn't exist and the brass is no longer produced. I am sitting on enough new brass to last longer than I do. I've heard the brass can be made from .223 cases but I'm not trying that. The .17 Hornady Hornet made a splash a while back but seems to have disappeared lately. It was a tad slower than the Fireball in factory loads.

Nosler has loaded ammo and brass for sale. If you want to form cases just neck down 221 Fireball brass.

 

[Robert Richardson]

Anybody shooting 17 Remington?

 

[Clay Pigeon]

Maybe a 30 carbine cut back a little then necked down? Regular 30 case capacity is 1.4 cc so knock off maybe 1/2"? Then you run into the oddball head size so no just rebarreling any old bolt action.

A single shot using one of the 327 caliber (327 Fed Mag, 32 H&R, 32 S&W, etc) handgun cases necked down would be simple also.

Look at the 19 Badger, its a necked down 30 carbine case... google it and you will get Calhoons website for bullets,dies and conversions.

 

[JeepHammer]

Some of you all are getting it!

.223/.224, .172 something like that, but a velocity where you can pick either hard lead or jacketed bullets,
Something you can cast bullets for if you wanted to go that far,
And get a crap load of cartridges per pound of lead & powder.

I find shooting a lot more fun when it's not busting my eardrums, shoulder or BUDGET...

I take the loading of .172 bullets to be trying at times, my old eyes & fat fingers don't agree on the way things get done as well as they used to.
I use a bullet feeder for most .223/.224 bullets these days, but I'm sure I could get a .172 bullet feeder to do a reasonable job,
Just a question of tuning and finding a feed/seat die...

I'm glad to see not everyone thinks it takes a .338 Lapua Mag to terminate a groundhog under 200 yards
After the last few prairie dog trips I was beginning to think if it didn't give you an overpressure concussion it wasn't dragged out there!

Now, if someone could explain all the mildot optics prairie dog or ground hog hunting I'd be interested in that also...

I guess I'm getting cranky in my old age...