4064 Powder life???

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  • halfmileharry

    Grandmaster
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    Dec 2, 2010
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    South of Indy
    I've got about 6+ lbs of 4064 powder that's been in the ammo locker (refridgerator) for maybe 10 years.
    With the ammo crunch I'm thinking about loading up more 243.
    Any life expectation input on the 4064 ???
     

    FFJakeT

    Marksman
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    Jan 17, 2012
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    Go by smell. I've used some thats... well idk how old, easily 20+ , and shoots fine. Consistent and Good Chrono'd FPS. Good groups. Etc.
     

    led4thehed2

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    Oct 16, 2011
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    Indianapolis
    I've used 4064 recently from the mid 90s. No problems. Check for the tell-tale brick-red dust/powder that is a sure sign of deterioration. To me, that's more reliable than smell.
     

    Fixer

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    26   1   0
    Nov 22, 2009
    1,157
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    Fort Wayne Area
    I have some 700X in a 12lb tin I inherited from the Father-in-Law. Im thinking its at least 20 years old if not older. I have loaded quite a few rounds with it recently with no issues at all.
     

    clayshooter99

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    Dec 3, 2008
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    Metal cans or plastic ??? I have seen some IMR/Duont powders turn to brown dust, that was from the late 70's cans and a home that did not use much a/c or a dehumidifier.
     

    BGDave

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    Sep 15, 2011
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    Beech Grove
    Stored away from heat and large temperature fluctuations it will outlive you. Really.
    That is somewhat depressing.

    On another note, anybody else notice that single base powder seems impervious to degradation? While the only powder I ever had to turn into fountain sparklers was double base.
     

    AmmoManAaron

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    Feb 20, 2015
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    I-get-around
    On another note, anybody else notice that single base powder seems impervious to degradation? While the only powder I ever had to turn into fountain sparklers was double base.

    Yep, this has 100% been my experience and also is consistent with my observation of others' powder as well. Nitrocellulose is very stable while the nitroglycerin in double base powder is attacked over time by trace amounts of acid leftover from the manufacturing process. The nitroglycerin turns into a variety of compounds including nitric acid and glycerin. The nitric acid further hastens the degradation process (positive feedback loop) and the glycerin makes a gooey mess of what's left. The nose stinging smell and/or brown fumes that are given off is from the nitric acid.

    The same thing happens in old cartridges loaded with double base powder when it goes bad except that you have some additional reactions with the brass case that corrodes the case from the inside out. You'll often notice cracks at the neck or shoulder with green corrosion around them, sometimes weeping an oily liquid (glycerin and other icky stuff). The liquid will rapidly corrode the outside of other cartridges it comes in contact with. That's why I don't recommend storing old surplus ammo as mixed lots. If one random round goes bad, it can ruin perfectly good ammo that was made at a different time and place. If contemplating a large purchase of potentially questionable old ammo, pull a round apart and inspect the inside of the case - it should be bright and shiny or at least have a nice even patina. Shades of green and blue is bad. Argentine made 7.65 Argentine, and Bulgarian made 8mm Mauser are two examples known to have bad lots and good lots. With the Argentine, it was the most recently made surplus - 1981 - that constantly goes bad (personal observation that has been reported by numerous others as well), while the ball ammo from 1974 and other similar years is perfectly good. Completely counterintuitive that the newer stuff is junk, but there it is. I was luckier than others because I caught the problem early with the small amount of 1981 ball that I had. A few pulled rounds showed that the inside of the cases had just a very light coating of blues/greens and the powder was not yet real clumpy, just ever so slightly sticky that you noticed it didn't flow like normal when handling it. I shot it ALL up at the range within a week. I took some known good surplus ammo and shot it too for comparison. The 1981 had about half the recoil (no joke), but it all shot without a single hangfire, dud, or ruptured case - was still glad to be rid of it.
     

    BGDave

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    Thanks Aaron, this is the kind of post that keeps me coming back to the reloading forum. Especially the breakdown of powder in the case. I have pulled bullets on cases that were degraded and found the powder was almost a solid. I always thought it was moisture related. As an added bonus I sometimes get Cordite. (It's the pyro in me).
     
    Last edited:

    DMTJAGER

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    Jan 15, 2020
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    WHITING
    I can only tell you what a reps from more than one powder/reloading company I spoke with at the SCI convention I went to back in the mid 1990's told me when I asked them that question
    They replied if stored properly in a climate contoled environment especially if temp and humidity are constant and controlled it will out last me!!!! I kid you not. One guy did tell me to once every six months to flip the powder jug upside down. While at the same convention spoke with ammo maker reps from Federal Olin and Remington about loaded ammo shelf life they said same thing if stored properly essentially my lifetime
    The one guy from Federal showed me a story of where some divers brought up a case of 30/06 M1 ammo off a sunken reck along with loose ammo badly corroded and it all went bang after being under water more than 40 years.
     
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