Scorched brass?

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    Master
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    All, I worked up a new 45ACP load as follows:
    CCI Large pistol Primer
    6.1 grns Hodgdon CFE
    230grn Berry's Plated bullet
    Fired from my trusty Sig P220.

    I notice that most of my brass looks like it is scorched down one side only:
    https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aot1KbgqZ2qgkuwhiAW6KvhqoqoHNQ?e=fus7ba

    I have never seen any brass come out of this weapon looking like this before now.
    If I had my chrono on these I could tell you (and me) more...but I did not.
    Any ideas on what is causing this?
     
    Last edited:

    Clay Pigeon

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    Fire.... Powder still burning during extraction... Extractor has ahold of the brass and its heading out of the ejection port and its at a angle so the flame just has the lefthand side of the brass to discolor.
     

    STFU

    Master
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    Fire.... Powder still burning during extraction... Extractor has ahold of the brass and its heading out of the ejection port and its at a angle so the flame just has the lefthand side of the brass to discolor.
    Clay, is that normal? IOW, is the something wrong with my load, crimp, etc?

    Just not used to seeing that.

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
     

    Whip_McCord

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    The load pressure is too light to expand the case mouths and seal the chambers. This causes the gases to blow back and discolor the brass. I get the same thing in my light cowboy 45 Colt loads, using Clays powder.

    Your load does not seem to be too light, according to Hodgdon. See if there is enough crimp. Otherwise, should not be a problem.
     

    indyjohn

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    All, I worked up a new 45ACP load as follows:
    CCI Large pistol Primer
    6.1 grns Hodgdon CFE
    230grn Berry's Plated bullet
    Fired from my trusty Sig P220.

    I notice that most of my brass looks like it is scorched down one side only:
    https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aot1KbgqZ2qgkuwhiAW6KvhqoqoHNQ?e=fus7ba

    I have never seen any brass come out of this weapon looking like this before now.
    If I had my chrono on these I could tell you (and me) more...but I did not.
    Any ideas on what is causing this?

    The load pressure is too light to expand the case mouths and seal the chambers. This causes the gases to blow back and discolor the brass. I get the same thing in my light cowboy 45 Colt loads, using Clays powder.

    Your load does not seem to be too light, according to Hodgdon. See if there is enough crimp. Otherwise, should not be a problem.

    Same thing happens with my SA 1911 and mild loads. A little more crimp will help.
     

    shibumiseeker

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    near Bedford on a whole lot of land.
    Light loads are a consideration but it can also happen with some chamber/brass combinations. A loose chamber will allow it to happen, and paradoxically, in some cases hot loads can do it as well as the extraction process starts while barrel pressure is still high during extraction allowing more blowback.

    In any case, as long as there are no warning signs of overpressure it's not a problem. Modern .45acp guns are pretty well designed to handle +P loads.
     

    STFU

    Master
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    Interesting info guys.
    To be honest, the loads felt a bit light to me. I felt like I was lobbing them in...had to aim a bit higher at 30ft as well.

    I think the crimp is good...when I pull a bullet back out, there is just a slightly indented ring all the way around. But the Berry's Plated are very soft.
    I will adjust the crimp to start and see how that goes. (I have already loaded 400 more of these and do not feel like pulling all of the bullets to start.)

    If that does not fix it, I will look at stepping up the charge a bit.
     

    Clay Pigeon

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    CFE is a slowwww burner... The cases are scorched on one side, they are being scorched during extraction and burning is still happening. Look at the cases and one can see that the brass is expanding to a good seal. That load and a 230 grain bullet is about 15000 psi.
    If you want to change it go to a faster burner like 231, Bullseye or unique.
     

    t-squared

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    If you're not getting any set-back after chambering a round, and you're getting the very slight indent you indicated on a pulled bullet, then your crimp should be fine.

    In 45acp velocity ranges, Berry's states that you can use FMJ data.....http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq

    According to Hodgdon's site your load is just a bit over the "starting" fmj charge......Set your sights on pistol reloading data | Hodgdon Reloading

    If you want to keep using CFE try bumping up the charge to the middle/upper end of the FMJ data. Or, as CP said above, change powders. AA#2, Bullseye, Titegroup, 231, Sport Pistol, and AA#5 have all worked well for me.
     

    Cameramonkey

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    t-squared, you are saying I should treat the Berry's plated the same as FMJs?
    I used the LRN data from the Hodgdon site because of the bullet diameter matching and the softer bullet overall (plating only).

    I am asking because i am getting conflicting info: https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ding/483364-question-about-45acp-reloads.html
    What you are saying does make sense though.

    Yes. Berry's website agrees w you. I load Berry's plated rounds so I am very familiar with them.
     

    t-squared

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    t-squared, you are saying I should treat the Berry's plated the same as FMJs?
    I used the LRN data from the Hodgdon site because of the bullet diameter matching and the softer bullet overall (plating only).

    I am asking because i am getting conflicting info: https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ding/483364-question-about-45acp-reloads.html
    What you are saying does make sense though.

    If the discoloration is bugging you, I was just pointing out that you've got a good bit of playing room left according to Hodgdon's data.
     

    STFU

    Master
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    If the discoloration is bugging you, I was just pointing out that you've got a good bit of playing room left according to Hodgdon's data.

    Actually the discoloration does not bug me per se. I was just worried that something was wrong as I have not seen it before now.
    I have never seen it with my 44Mag loads or 300BLK loads. Now i understand why.
    You all have helped me figure out what I was doing wrong...too light on the charge.

    So...I will pull 50, give them a higher powder charge, and test (w/ chrono) when I get home in Nov.
    If that goes well, the remaining 450 will be next.

    Thank you all. I appreciate your help!
     

    t-squared

    Master
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    Not criticizing....you do you....but there's no way I would pull 50, much less 450, just because of what is happening!!! I would simply shoot them up and move on.

    This does highlight something everyone has probably made the mistake of doing, I know I have, and that is cranking out a bunch of loads without fully vetting the recipe first.
     

    Cameramonkey

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    Not criticizing....you do you....but there's no way I would pull 50, much less 450, just because of what is happening!!! I would simply shoot them up and move on.

    This does highlight something everyone has probably made the mistake of doing, I know I have, and that is cranking out a bunch of loads without fully vetting the recipe first.


    This. My competition load does this. Its no big deal. It just means you will need to clean your gun a little sooner. Send 'em. (unless accuracy is obviously bad for the load)
     

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