Subbing small rifle primers for small pistol - any hard data?

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  • cobber

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    Has anyone done methodical comparison of small rifle and small pistol primers, with controlled loads and chrony data (and perhaps pressure testing)?

    Searched the Tube of Yous but nothing jumped out, and no general posts on the interwebz that methodically break this down.

    Or?


    Magnum primers are a different beast, I understand...
     

    Cameramonkey

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    Nothing concrete to add, except the following:

    Pistol in Rifle: On hotter loads the softer, thinner primers are more prone to rupture, causing a bit more gassing out the chamber. And in EXTREMELY rare cases, premature detonation on chambering if the firing pin is able to ride forward and tap the primer. (autoloaders)

    Rifle in Pistol: Some pistols may not strike the primer hard enough to detonate it.
     

    Limpy88

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    reading some ones account of a phone discussion and email from cci.
    cci said that the small rifle and magnum small pistol where exactly the same.
    same amount of material in both and cup size.
    the small pistol was shorter and less material by like 15% or so


    other companys Idk.
     

    bwframe

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    No hard data, but during the last shortage a number of USPSA competitors spoke of using SRP in pistol loads without problem. Plenty enough that I would not think anything of delving into it, if needed.

    I would encourage anyone going that direction now to take detailed notes and post up a pretty extensive AAR on the results. Maybe even start a separate ongoing thread dedicated to results of SRP in SPP loads...
     

    VinceU1

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    I've been using Winchester and Wolfe small rifle primers in everything that takes a small rifle or small pistol primer since about 1998 or so. That would be 9mm, .38Super/SC, .38SPL, .357MAG, .223/5.56, .22-250 and I've forgotten what else. Must be 60k rounds of ammo. Started doing it because when I started shooting USPSA, .38Super had a minimum power factor of 175 or so and the only way to meet that need was over pressure .38Super loads. The primer was the weak link and small pistol primers would leak. Bad. Now that USPSA has lowered the power factor, you don't NEED small rifle primers but I keep using them because, well, just habit I guess.
     

    JHB

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    30 years ago we were using small rifle primers in 38 super for major power loads. Never had a problem in thousands of rounds in a 1911.
     

    billybob44

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    My opinion ONLY...

    I have handloaded for a lot of years.
    During these times, I have loaded/shot a LOT of Small Rifle Primers in Small Pistol primed loads..This has mostly always worked out well...I say mostly, except in my "Tuned" S&W .38/.357 revolvers.
    There has been a few light primer strikes/failure to fire in these cases.
    With this in mind, all of my .38/.357 loads get Small Pistol primers.

    Just me, but I do/will not load a Small Rifle case with a Small Pistol primer--It may?? work for you==It may?? not....Bill.
     

    Sniper 79

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    I loaded and shot a ton of 9mm loads using some old 22 hornet specific Remington small rifle primers. All I could find during last panic. Worked out well and were practically free.
     

    spencer rifle

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    Speaking of magnum:
    I have used SR magnum primers for standard .223 for a while. Apparently the main difference is metal thickness, not so much power. I found chrony data online that shows SR and SRM have practically the same FPS. Got them on sale.
     
    Last edited:

    billybob44

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    Remington 6 1/2's comes to mind.....

    I loaded and shot a ton of 9mm loads using some old 22 hornet specific Remington small rifle primers. All I could find during last panic. Worked out well and were practically free.

    ^^^This is spot on..

    During the "Obummer" term, when primer supplies were short, I made several trade deals for Remington 6 1/2 primers.
    I really don't know if they make the 6 1/2 primer any more==They are listed for Small Rifle use, but are ONLY for low pressure Rifle loads, such as 218 Bee, .22 Hornet, etc.

    Many of new loaders would see them on the shelf (when all other SR primers were gone) and buy them to load up their .223/5.56 cases with.
    These loaders got them home to read the box, that said "Not for Hi Pressure loads, such as .223 Remington".

    I was able to trade for these on a 2 for 1 basis for CCI-400, or WW SR primers.

    They (6 1/2's) work GREAT for any (Except Tuned S&W's) SP primed cases...Bill.
     

    DadSmith

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    Has anyone done methodical comparison of small rifle and small pistol primers, with controlled loads and chrony data (and perhaps pressure testing)?

    Searched the Tube of Yous but nothing jumped out, and no general posts on the interwebz that methodically break this down.

    Or?


    Magnum primers are a different beast, I understand...

    Ive done it for years. I see no difference in my loads from hot to mild. I stopped buying small pistol primers 20+ years ago because there isn't any difference imo.
     

    turnerdye1

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    I was also curious about this topic so I'm going to run a test.

    I've loaded up 10 rounds of each primer type and I will run them through a chrono to see if there is any speed difference. I'm unable to test pressure but I will check the brass for pressure signs.

    Load Info:
    Once Fired Mixed 9mm brass
    115gr Lead RN from Summit City
    4.5gr of Titegroup
    CCI SPP #500 and CCI SRP #400
    COAL - 1.110"

    I'll shoot these out of a Glock 17 and a Glock 43 and see how they do. Hopefully I can get to the range this week.
     

    Restroyer

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    I was also curious about this topic so I'm going to run a test.

    I've loaded up 10 rounds of each primer type and I will run them through a chrono to see if there is any speed difference. I'm unable to test pressure but I will check the brass for pressure signs.

    Load Info:
    Once Fired Mixed 9mm brass
    115gr Lead RN from Summit City
    4.5gr of Titegroup
    CCI SPP #500 and CCI SRP #400
    COAL - 1.110"

    I'll shoot these out of a Glock 17 and a Glock 43 and see how they do. Hopefully I can get to the range this week.

    Please share the results. I look forward to hearing how the data turns out. Thanks.
     

    turnerdye1

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    Alright I ran out to the range today and did some quick chrono testing with these loads. Everything was loaded on a Dillon 650 with the powder die/measure set to 4.5grains. I was using a Caldwell Chrono hooked up to my phone to record results.

    These were my results.

    Small Pistol Primers - CCI 500 - out of the Glock 17. My velocity average was 1178fps. My SD was 15.2. My spread was 37. As expected these shot and felt like normal.

    Small Rifle Primers - CCI 400 - out of the Glock 17. My velocity average was 1180fps. My SD was 9.2. My spread was 27. To my surprise these shot and felt like normal. No extra recoil or snap.

    Small Pistol Primers - CCI 500 - out of the Glock 43. My velocity average was 1125fps. My SD was 23.9. My spread was 54. As expected these shot and felt like normal. I assume the SD and spread varied more due to the shorter barrel.

    Small Rifle Primers - CCI 400 - out of the Glock 43. My velocity average was 1102fps. My SD was 10.5. My spready was 28. To my surprise the velocity was a little lower then with pistol primers. The reason for this is I have no clue lol. The SD and spread were lower which I would assume is due to the primer burning the powder a little better? IDK

    I forgot to rake the leaves on the range before shooting so I did loose some brass. I marked the rifle primers with a blue sharpie and the pistol primers with a black sharpie. Upon inspecting the cases I did locate they all appeared to be the same to my eye.

    Small Rifle Primers




    Small Pistol Primers



    Information purposes only. Please test this in your own firearms and at your own risk.
     
    Last edited:

    JHB

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    Thank you for sharing your results. This looks like I only need to stock small rifle primers. Now to find some:(
     

    turnerdye1

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    Luckily I have about 6k small rifle primers sitting around and only about 500 small pistol primers.

    So when I run out I think I may load up some of these rifle primers into some 9mm
     
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