Question about move out charges

[scottka]

So, I moved out of my old place and into my new place this past July. They are both in Indy; I just wanted to move closer to school. Anyway, a couple of days ago, I got a letter from my old place stating that they replaced the carpet and I need to send them a check for $403. Now, I didn't think the carpet was any worse than when we moved in, but I'm sure I can't prove that. Anyway, I guess my question is aren't they legally obligated to inform me earlier of the charges? I mean I haven't lived there for almost 3 months. Is there a time limit on this stuff or am I just making up stuff in my head? I've been diggin a little, and found something about a 45 day limit when they are taking from a deposit, but there was no deposit on this place so I didn't know if a different law applied.

Any advice would be appreciated. I'm not very up on my landlord/tenant law.

 

[SEIndSAM]

Did you sign a lease for the apartment? If so, what does the lease say?

 

[The Bubba Effect]

I am not a lawyer and I am not qualified to give legal advice. The only advice I am giving is I advise you seek assistance or answers from a qualified attorney.

That said, I believe this is the Indiana Code you might be remembering.

IC 32-31-3-12
Return of deposits; deductions; liability
Sec. 12. (a) Upon termination of a rental agreement, a landlord shall return to the tenant the security deposit minus any amount applied to:
(1) the payment of accrued rent;
(2) the amount of damages that the landlord has suffered or will reasonably suffer by reason of the tenant's noncompliance with law or the rental agreement; and
(3) unpaid utility or sewer charges that the tenant is obligated to pay under the rental agreement;
all as itemized by the landlord with the amount due in a written notice that is delivered to the tenant not more than forty-five (45) days after termination of the rental agreement and delivery of possession. The landlord is not liable under this chapter until the tenant supplies the landlord in writing with a mailing address to which to deliver the notice and amount prescribed by this subsection. Unless otherwise agreed, a tenant is not entitled to apply a security deposit to rent.
(b) If a landlord fails to comply with subsection (a), a tenant may recover all of the security deposit due the tenant and reasonable attorney's fees.
(c) This section does not preclude the landlord or tenant from recovering other damages to which either is entitled.
(d) The owner of the dwelling unit at the time of the termination of the rental agreement is bound by this section.
As added by P.L.2-2002, SEC.16.

Indiana Code 32-31-3

 

[Tactical Dave]

This is why before you move your stuff in you take many pictures and document everything find give the office a copy and you keep a copy and then take pics and document everything when you move out and have them do a walk though.


i wasworkin in a lower end complex the other day and a guy had a page of issues and the office kept a copy and said that any item they could by fix they would document it and not charge him when he moved out and they did not give him a hard time about it.

You might bein a tight spot depending on what the lease said.

 

[scottka]

I'll have to check the lease. I don't have it with me as it's at my parents house, but I'll have to check it out. Thanks for the advice so far guys.

 

[scottka]

I am not a lawyer and I am not qualified to give legal advice. The only advice I am giving is I advise you seek assistance or answers from a qualified attorney.

That said, I believe this is the Indiana Code you might be remembering.

IC 32-31-3-12
Return of deposits; deductions; liability
Sec. 12. (a) Upon termination of a rental agreement, a landlord shall return to the tenant the security deposit minus any amount applied to:
(1) the payment of accrued rent;
(2) the amount of damages that the landlord has suffered or will reasonably suffer by reason of the tenant's noncompliance with law or the rental agreement; and
(3) unpaid utility or sewer charges that the tenant is obligated to pay under the rental agreement;
all as itemized by the landlord with the amount due in a written notice that is delivered to the tenant not more than forty-five (45) days after termination of the rental agreement and delivery of possession. The landlord is not liable under this chapter until the tenant supplies the landlord in writing with a mailing address to which to deliver the notice and amount prescribed by this subsection. Unless otherwise agreed, a tenant is not entitled to apply a security deposit to rent.
(b) If a landlord fails to comply with subsection (a), a tenant may recover all of the security deposit due the tenant and reasonable attorney's fees.
(c) This section does not preclude the landlord or tenant from recovering other damages to which either is entitled.
(d) The owner of the dwelling unit at the time of the termination of the rental agreement is bound by this section.
As added by P.L.2-2002, SEC.16.

Indiana Code 32-31-3

yeah, that's the IC I was remembering, but I don't know if that would apply given the fact that it wasn't technically a deposit.

 

[HoughMade]

A few years ago, a young lawyer I am acquainted with wrote the following. He does not know if the law in this area has changed as he does not do this type of work anymore. This is not legal advice, and should not be taken as such, but maybe this can help you research your own issue:

Under Indiana law, a landlord who collects a security deposit from a tenant has some very specific duties. For instance, if a landlord claims unpaid rent, violation of the lease causing damages or unpaid utilities, the landlord must submit an itemized list of the claimed amounts to the tenant in a written notice "not more than forty-five (45) days after termination of the rental agreement and delivery of possession..." Ind. Code § 32-7-5-12(a). Specifically, as to alleged damage to the rental property, the law provides as follows:


"In case of damage to the rental unit or other obligation against the security deposit, the landlord shall mail to the tenant, within forty-five (45) days after the termination of the occupancy, an itemized list of damages claimed for which the security deposit may be used as provided in section 13 of this chapter, including the estimated cost of repair for each damaged item and the amounts and lease which the landlord intends to assess the tenant. the list must be accompanied by a check or money order for the difference between the damages claimed and the amount of the security deposit held by the landlord."


Ind. Code § 32-7-5-14. The 45 day period begins to run only after the tenant has supplied a forwarding address to the landlord in writing. Ind. Code § 32-7-5-12.


If [landlord] did not send an itemized list after receiving the forwarding address, no damages, whatsoever, may be claimed.

"Failure by a landlord to comply with the notice of damages requirement within the forty-five (45) days after the termination of occupancy constitutes agreement by the landlord that no damages are due, and the landlord must remit to the tenant immediately the full security deposit."


Ind. Code § 32-7-5-15. Under this provision, if there is not compliance with the notice requirement, no damages at all may be claimed, even if they exceed the amount of the security deposit.


"...[T]he clear intent of Section 15 is that if a landlord fails to provide the requisite notice within the 45-day period there are no "other damages" to collect... A landlord can attempt to pursue a claim for "other damages" only if it returns the tenant's security deposit within 45 days or provides the statutory notice. Because the Landlords failed to give the Tenants the required notice, the Tenants are entitled to judgment by operation of law."


Duchon v. Ross, 599 N.E.2d 621, 625 (Ind.App. 1992). "...f the required notice is not given, the landlord has implicitly agreed that 'there are no 'other damages' to collect.'" Miller v. Geels, 643 N.E.2d 922, 926 (Ind.App. 1994). See also, Skiver v. Brighton Meadows, 585 N.E.2d 1345, 1347 (Ind.App. 1992). Therefore, if the [tenant] supplied a written forwarding address to [landlord], they have a complete defense against any claims for damages to the rental property. In fact, [tenant] has a claim for the amount of the security deposit, plus attorney fees. Ind. Code § 32-7-5-16.

 

[scottka]

Thanks Hough. Again though, it seems as if it makes certain mention of the security deposit. Do you think that is limiting it to the security deposit or am I putting too much emphasis on that part?

 

[Brandon]

Something similar happened to me when I moved out of my apartment. They wanted me to pay 300 some odd dollars to hang a cabinet. I laughed at them and never responded to the letter. Never heard a word from them.

This is only a guess, they are possibly trying to get money out of you and will drop it if you ignore them or tell them to go ahead and take you to court. Again, that is only a guess and nothing more.

 

[CathyInBlue]

I don't see how failure to demand or supply a security deposit prejudices scottka's reliance on the 45 day period. The amount of the security deposit is simply $0.00. So long as scottka provided his forwarding address to his previous landlord more than 45 days ago, he's golden and can sue the former landlord to squelch his claims of damages on the former landlord's own dime (former landlord pays his attorney's fees).

 

[HoughMade]

Did you pay a security deposit? If so, than what that brilliant young man wrote up there would seem to apply even if the claimed damages exceed the security deposit and they are not seeking to take the cost from the security deposit.

If you never paid a security deposit (whether returned or not), then it would seem not to apply....but as I said, this is just a guideline for your own research and not legal advice.

 

[scottka]

I didn't pay a security deposit at all. It was a "special" they were running to fill up the last few apartment spots in the complex for the school year.

 

[scottka]

I don't see how failure to demand or supply a security deposit prejudices scottka's reliance on the 45 day period. The amount of the security deposit is simply $0.00. So long as scottka provided his forwarding address to his previous landlord more than 45 days ago, he's golden and can sue the former landlord to squelch his claims of damages on the former landlord's own dime (former landlord pays his attorney's fees).

This is kind of what I was originally thinking as well. I didn't know if I was missing something though. I knew someone on here would know more than I did anyhow.

 

[nm0369]

The carpet replacement is a common scam in apartment complex leasing. We lived in an "upscale" complex on the NW side years ago. The carpet was not new when we moved in, and had a few small visible patches from previous tenants. We lived there for 2.5 years, and during that time one of my wife's plant pots made a small stain on the carpet. They claimed that the entire apartment had to be re-carpeted, and billed us for almost $600 upon moving out. Scheisters....

 

[88GT]

Thanks Hough. Again though, it seems as if it makes certain mention of the security deposit. Do you think that is limiting it to the security deposit or am I putting too much emphasis on that part?

Damages =/= security deposit.

A landlord has to make a full accounting of the security deposit, including the return of any unused portions, to the tenant within the aforementioned 45 days. But seeking the payment of damages is subject to the statute of limitations, which IIRC is 7 years. No security deposit, no 45-day time frame. But you are still legally liable for damages caused by you (by which statement I make no claims to the validity of the apartment complex's accusations of your guilt), and you can be sued in small claims court for those damages any time until the statute of limitations runs out.

 

[daddymikey1975]

Oops

 

[Lucas156]

Isn't there a limit on carpet? After two years its standard to replace it any ways isn't it? I would think that qualifies as standard wear and tear which in most leases they can't charge you for.

 

[Hornett]

It is very important that you have some kind of paperwork where you told them your new address. From the day you tell them your forwarding address they have 45 days to inform you of any charges. If they miss the deadline, they have no recourse. You owe them nothing. And you can sue them for your deposit AND lawyer fees. GET A LAWYER.

 

[Bunnykid68]

I would send them a certified letter telling them to pound sand and if they had an issue with the carpet they should have addressed it up front. It has been 3 months and you have no idea who or what has been in that apartment and how could they possibly prove you were the cause of any damage. I would demand they send pictures of the so called damaged carpet. If they have no pictures of damaged carpet in the apartment you were in they have no case.

 

[actaeon277]

When you move into a newly rented place, take pictures and/or video of everything. Ceiling, wall, floor, appliances, etc.

When you move out. COMPLETELY clean. Take pictures and/or video again.

Have the landlord meet you there for an inspection. Do not leave until they say it is ok. Then get them to sign a statement that all conditions are met and the deposit will be returned, and no charges for damaged equipment.