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  1. #1
    Master PaulF's Avatar

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    CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: General Religious Discussion...

    In response to the first thread getting so crowded and difficult to follow (Predict the 1st Banning for uncivil behavior in the new Religious Threads...) here is a new thread specifically to discuss aspects of this topic. As the weekend progresses I will attempt to pull the relevant bits out of the old thread and paste them into this one, in order to (attempt to) create one cohesive thread on the subject.

    Have at it, INGO:

  2. #2
    INGO Homebrewer JettaKnight's Avatar

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    I can now shirk my daily duties three times as much as before!


  3. #3
    Grandmaster IndyDave1776's Avatar

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    "It's always a beautiful day in this neighborhood"

    --Fred Rogers when asked what epitaph he would have put on his grave stone
    Government and pedophiles both practice buggering those powerless to defend themselves.

  4. #4
    Grandmaster IndyDave1776's Avatar

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    So far as I am concerned, on of the most important things we can keep in mind as we address the subject of religion is that the beliefs of no other person can change our own condition. Ideas with which we disagree are not a disease we can catch involuntarily, and no harm can come to us from the ideas of others so long as the First Amendment standards of not establishing a religion, hence legislating what people are required to believe or otherwise penalizing faith or lack thereof, and not interfering with choices and practices of conscience with a few necessary exceptions like not allowing practitioners of some religions to sacrifice people.

    I find it encouraging that although there has been spirited discussion (no pun intended), it has stayed within the boundaries of the understanding that others may be brought to one's point of view only through persuasion that one's ideas are better than that person own ideas. More specifically, a person cannot be browbeaten into honestly believing anything other than that the person doing the browbeating is a jerk.

    It is also significant that most believers have points where they are not content that their understanding is satisfactory. It may well be a relatively minor issue, maybe not so minor. It may be minor to some but not others. Generally, I can be happy to worship with most different varieties of Christian. Even those with whom I would have numerous doctrinal differences have a basic foundation on which we can agree. I would much rather encourage a believer with whom I have differences of belief in the understanding that I didn't start where I am and he didn't start were he will end up, even if it is developing a greater depth of the same basic understanding.

    i also feel compelled to point out that when one approaches the discussion with ears open, it is entirely possible to learn some very interesting new things. I will offer thanks to CathyInBlue for her excellent explanation of evolution which has significantly changed my understanding of the concept. No, it isn't going to shake up my faith, but I am definitely better off for understanding it better than I did before.

    As one of the most outspoken dissenters with the previous prohibition against religious discussion, I feel an obligation to encourage everyone to continue as we have been with a good discussion which stands to expand mutual understanding and add depth to our neighbors who often are merely characters on a screen as I am now. I would like to extend my thanks to Fenway for choosing to allow this experiment in what could potentially be troublesome territory and my encouragement to all who are keeping it as a tool of understanding rather than a tool of hostility.
    Government and pedophiles both practice buggering those powerless to defend themselves.

  5. #5
    Shooter

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    Out

  6. #6
    Shooter

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    Wherever you are in the universe you know that it works because everything in it is needed. Reconcile with this and life becomes bearable, if not freakin' joyous...

  7. #7
    Grandmaster CathyInBlue's Avatar

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    I always thought the religion threads belong, and were going to be created, as a separate forum under the General Interest. Forum General Interest Religion. That way, all of these thread title prefixes "CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION" could be dispensed with.

    What could I discuss about religion generally?…

    How about the position some religionists take that without religion (specificly their religion) there can be no true morality, that morality requires an absolute standard to be useful, otherwise no one's moral compass can possibly point to "true north".

    In response to that proposition, I always question why should we use your religion's moral laws, as opposed to some other religion's moral laws?

    Second, I reject the whole premise that only religious morality can carry the imprimatur of absolute right and wrong. Raw, unadulterated human reason is entirely capable of crafting a set of moral laws with every bit the authority of religiously based moral laws, and in fact look very much the same as large swaths of various religious moral laws, all while having a rational basis to back them up, which is, in my humble opinion, a basis superior to "Because our god said so."
    I failed the Voight-Kampff test.

  8. #8
    The BOFH GPIA7R's Avatar

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    We are Homo Ludens. We are those who play.

  9. #9
    Marksman

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    Quote Originally Posted by CathyInBlue View Post

    ... I reject the whole premise that only religious morality can carry the imprimatur of absolute right and wrong. Raw, unadulterated human reason is entirely capable of crafting a set of moral laws with every bit the authority of religiously based moral laws, and in fact look very much the same as large swaths of various religious moral laws, all while having a rational basis to back them up, which is, in my humble opinion, a basis superior to "Because our god said so."


    I'd be truly interested to hear some of the "rational" basis for a morality system without a religious foundation. (I use quotes because a religious basis for morality is surely not irrational.) Anyone care to present the argument(s) for my education and interest?
    "A fool delights in airing his opinions" -- Solomon

  10. #10
    Grandmaster BigBoxaJunk's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kart29 View Post
    I'd be truly interested to hear some of the "rational" basis for a morality system without a religious foundation. (I use quotes because a religious basis for morality is surely not irrational.) Anyone care to present the argument(s) for my education and interest?
    A secular morality doesn't have to be any more complicated than a set of standards (you might even call them rules) by which people have agreed to live. I believe rule of law is an example of secular morality.

    Whenever I hear someone say "You can't legislate morality." I think to myself "Sure you can. What IS legislation, if not that morality which people have decided is fair and prudent to impose upon ourselves and each other?"
    No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up.

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