Questions For Our LEOs About Traffic Accident Investigations

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  • Mr. Habib

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    I was involved in 3 vehicle traffic accident on 11/17 at about 0645. I was stopped at a traffic light and struck from the rear by a van that was stopped behind me. They were struck from the rear and pushed into me. The driver of the third vehicle apparently made no attempt to stop and struck the van. The driver of the third car left on a backboard. ISP was the responding agency.

    My questions:

    1) How long does it typically take for an accident report to be available. The trooper told me that I could get it within ten days. This is now day eleven and counting. The only response I can get from the ISP post is that the trooper hasn't finish it yet. Surprisingly though, He found the time to notify the DMV and they managed to get a letter to me even with a holiday and a weekend.

    2) Is there a statutory time limit for them to be available?

    3) When did the State start requiring you to purchase the report from a third party?

    4) When did the law require that everyone involved in a traffic accident be given a Breathalyzer at the scene and also required to consent to a blood draw at the hospital, even though none of the other drivers showed any signs of impairment? ( we were both told to drive ourselves to the hospital by the trooper at the scene)
     

    Fargo

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    In a state of acute Pork-i-docis
    I was involved in 3 vehicle traffic accident on 11/17 at about 0645. I was stopped at a traffic light and struck from the rear by a van that was stopped behind me. They were struck from the rear and pushed into me. The driver of the third vehicle apparently made no attempt to stop and struck the van. The driver of the third car left on a backboard. ISP was the responding agency.

    My questions:

    1) How long does it typically take for an accident report to be available. The trooper told me that I could get it within ten days. This is now day eleven and counting. The only response I can get from the ISP post is that the trooper hasn't finish it yet. Surprisingly though, He found the time to notify the DMV and they managed to get a letter to me even with a holiday and a weekend.

    2) Is there a statutory time limit for them to be available?

    3) When did the State start requiring you to purchase the report from a third party?

    4) When did the law require that everyone involved in a traffic accident be given a Breathalyzer at the scene and also required to consent to a blood draw at the hospital, even though none of the other drivers showed any signs of impairment? ( we were both told to drive ourselves to the hospital by the trooper at the scene)
    To answer number four, that law was passed in 1991 and amended in 2001. It is IC 9-30-7-3 and it applies to accidents with serious bodily injury or death. That said, it is widely considered to be unconstitutional when applied to people with no signs of impairment under the US Supreme Court ruling a couple years back, the name of which escapes me.
     

    Mr. Habib

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    To answer number four, that law was passed in 1991 and amended in 2001. It is IC 9-30-7-3 and it applies to accidents with serious bodily injury or death. That said, it is widely considered to be unconstitutional when applied to people with no signs of impairment under the US Supreme Court ruling a couple years back, the name of which escapes me.

    Are LEOs now required to have medical degrees? If not how are they qualified to render judgement as to the severity of someone's injuries?
    Not trying to be snarky, at least anymore than usual, just curious as to what makes them any more qualified than anyone else to make that determination.
     

    Fargo

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    Are LEOs now required to have medical degrees? If not how are they qualified to render judgement as to the severity of someone's injuries?
    Not trying to be snarky, at least anymore than usual, just curious as to what makes them any more qualified than anyone else to make that determination.
    I don't know that anything makes them more qualified, they are just the ones the legislature decided get to make that determination. In my experience, the cops almost always go off what the EMTs tell them. The US Supreme Court case I was thinking of which makes the blood draw portion of the statute likely unconstitutional when applied to a person not showing signs of impairment is Missouri v. McNeely.

    https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/12pdf/11-1425_cb8e.pdf
     

    phylodog

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    Are LEOs now required to have medical degrees? If not how are they qualified to render judgement as to the severity of someone's injuries?
    Not trying to be snarky, at least anymore than usual, just curious as to what makes them any more qualified than anyone else to make that determination.

    The legal definition of serious bodily injury does not require a medical degree to determine. That said, LEO's are required to be lots of things they aren't. Lawyers, marriage counselors, medical experts, drug and alcohol specialists, therapists, mental health experts, etc..

    http://www.in.gov/ipac/files/13._Case_law_summary_Indiana_bodily_injury_and_SBI_definitions.pdf
     

    Mr. Habib

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    The answer to number two is probably IC9-26-2-2, which requires it to be completed within 24 hours of the completion of the investigation.

    That requires an officer to send a report to the State. I'm wandering about making the report available to the parties involved. Thanks for the cite though, this thread is proving to be very informative.
     

    Mr. Habib

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    The legal definition of serious bodily injury does not require a medical degree to determine. That said, LEO's are required to be lots of things they aren't. Lawyers, marriage counselors, medical experts, drug and alcohol specialists, therapists, mental health experts, etc..

    http://www.in.gov/ipac/files/13._Case_law_summary_Indiana_bodily_injury_and_SBI_definitions.pdf

    Understood. I was thinking about the fact that the IC that Fargo mentioned states that any unconscious parties in the accident aren't required to submit to a chemical test. So some guy ODs and passes out causing an accident with serious bodily injury and he is the only one not required to give a blood sample. That can't be right.
     

    KittySlayer

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    Getting paid from the moron that hit you is going to be a long, frustrating experience. As annoyed as you are now, you ain't seen nothing yet in the way of delays.

    1) He said ten days, throw in a long holiday weekend and give it until the end of the week.

    2) Don't know but probably not as fast as you want.

    3) When we started wanting everything online instead of taking an afternoon off work to stand in line at some government office.

    4) Identifying serious bodily injury doesn't require a Rocket Surgeon, the officer sees more than most people and probably has a better idea than us civilians. The backboard might have been a clue.

    Sorry for the snarky response but you're being quite the Grumpy Gus, understandably so given the fact you got hit by some moron that was probably on their phone. Glad you walked away.
     

    Hoosierkav

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    IC 9-30-7-3  (a) A law enforcement officer shall offer a portable breath test or chemical test to any person who the officer has reason to believe operated a vehicle that was involved in a fatal accident or an accident involving serious bodily injury.  

    Every vehicle involved in the crash? So, when it's a snowy day and 50 cars pile up on I-65...? A bit facetious, but...

    I would have though that it would mean the operator of the vehicle that was doing the striking/injury, but I could swallow it a bit easier if it said "may" rather than "shall".

    Last thought: Does insurance (auto or medical) pay for the chemical test? If I've met my deductible (medical), I shouldn't have to pay a cent (YMMV), but since this is not a medical necessity but a legal... ?
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    IC 9-30-7-3  (a) A law enforcement officer shall offer a portable breath test or chemical test to any person who the officer has reason to believe operated a vehicle that was involved in a fatal accident or an accident involving serious bodily injury.  

    It's been awhile since I took a crash report, but I *never* did that for everyone involved. The guy who caused the crash, sure. If anyone was showing signs of impairment, sure. But everyone? Never even considered it.
     

    Hop

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    Funny timing seeing this thread. I just got rearended Monday. I was the front car of a 4 car wreck on the I465 ramp to Meridian St. The other 3 cars got towed. 2 drivers left in ambulances. I'm not liking what I'm hearing about how long this will take to get my car fixed. :xmad:
     

    Mr. Habib

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    Funny timing seeing this thread. I just got rearended Monday. I was the front car of a 4 car wreck on the I465 ramp to Meridian St. The other 3 cars got towed. 2 drivers left in ambulances. I'm not liking what I'm hearing about how long this will take to get my car fixed. :xmad:

    Good luck! Were you required to take a breath test or blood draw? Which agency investigated?
     

    Hop

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    Good luck! Were you required to take a breath test or blood draw? Which agency investigated?

    Carmel PD was on the scene in <10 minutes. No tests of any kind for me, just license, reg & insurance card. I got a printed copy listing all involved parties.

    The shop that did an estimate today told me since I couldn't secure my trunk & water was getting in, that I should be able to get it fixed asap.
     

    VUPDblue

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    If the BMV has been notified then the report has been sent, that's the only way the BMV gets the notification of a crash. Is it not coming upon buycrash.com?
     

    Mr. Habib

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    If the BMV has been notified then the report has been sent, that's the only way the BMV gets the notification of a crash. Is it not coming upon buycrash.com?
    No, it was not. My insurance agent was told over the phone by the post commander that the trooper had not finished the report yet. That is what had this so aggravating. The BMV had the report, yet the parties involved were being told that it didn't exist yet.

    UPDATE: I called my agent this past Thursday afternoon, fourteen days after the crash. She still couldn't get the report from buycrash.com. I drove to the ISP post to find out what was going on. The trooper on duty there took my information went back to his computer and was able to find it within a few minutes. He printed out the cover sheet for the report for me with the Incident Number. I called my agent from the post parking lot and miraculously, it was in the system. The total time from 'not there' to 'there' was maybe 30 minutes. I don't know if the investigating trooper didn't submit the report correctly or if it was a glitch in the system, nor do I really care, but the second trooper got it taken care of.

    On a side note. While I was waiting in the lobby of the post I started reading the plaques of the troopers lost in the line of duty. Having had a Grandfather that was a two term county sheriff that later retired as a Captain with the ISP, it was very humbling to realize that there are at least as many pictures on that wall as there are pictures of current troopers from that post on the adjacent wall. You guys, LEOs in general, not just ISP don't get nearly enough credit for what you do. Thank you.
     
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