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Thread: Science

  1. #551
    Le mot juste 2A_Tom's Avatar

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    Doug, they cannot predict the current weather correctly.

    It is pure hubris for them to make models that predict decades. It has never worked in the past and most likely will not work in the future.

    I give you East Anglia, whose data NASA could not confirm. OH ! Because it was falsified.

    https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...60.KUPgGXAWesg

    Climate change: this is the worst scientific scandal of our generation

    Where is Lead Eye when you need him?

    Oh well. Follow the money.




  2. #552
    Master spencer rifle's Avatar

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    JH:
    You are falling for the mistake of using the wrong tools. One does not "prove" a philosophical concept by using empirical means.

    To reduce God to a certainty removes all opportunity for faith, and "without faith it is impossible to please God."
    Rights are only as secure as the ability to wield sufficient force to defend them. - J. Neil Schulman

    “There's nothing wrong with the country a bad recession couldn't fix.” - Irving Kristol

    "He's not a tame lion..."

    1 Samuel 13:19

    Psalm 149:6

  3. #553
    Grandmaster T.Lex's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by JeepHammer View Post
    Every 'Religious' person I've known believes science is trying to 'Kill God'.
    You can't say that anymore.

    Hi, I'm a religious person (Catholic, to be precise) and do not believe that science is trying to kill God. Nor is it even capable of doing so.

    On the other hand, I've seen a fair share of science-y types, like yourself, who try to convince everyone to reject God by quantification. The problem with that approach is that there are gaps.

    Science is not 100% results based, otherwise there'd be no need to fudge the gravity calculations in deep space. Or depend on the magic of "dark matter" to explain the calculation conundrum about how much mass there is in the universe to support the Big Bang. Heck, the Heisenberg Principle rejects the precision of measuring quantum states outright.

    Whether reflecting Aquinian or Hegelian principles of philosophy and science, the reality is - and this is an objective reality - there is no requirement to divorce God from science.
    Resident Warning Shot Statist.

  4. #554
    Le mot juste 2A_Tom's Avatar

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    I am a Believer and have no problem with science.

    I do have a problem with science so called.

    God is omni-scien-t all knowing.

    Science brings us closer to God.




  5. #555
    Grandmaster Expat's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by T.Lex View Post
    You can't say that anymore.
    I have never known any religious people that take the position that Science is trying to kill God. I must have been hanging with the wrong sort.

  6. #556
    Expert NKBJ's Avatar

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    But there are organizations trying to use scientists to destroy faith in our creator. They'll use anything they can.

  7. #557
    Grandmaster eldirector's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by NKBJ View Post
    But there are organizations trying to use scientists to destroy faith in our creator. They'll use anything they can.
    And there are organizations trying to discredit science, simply because they don't (want to) understand.

    Some people just need to find a better hobby.
    Ryan "ElDirector"


  8. #558
    Grandmaster T.Lex's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by eldirector View Post
    And there are organizations trying to discredit science, simply because they don't (want to) understand.

    Some people just need to find a better hobby.
    I think both of those sides/types of organizations act on fear. They are afraid that any perceived "success" by one side somehow diminishes their own side.

    Not to mention the derogatory terms used to label people that take different positions. As is often the case, that's just unnecessary.
    Resident Warning Shot Statist.

  9. #559
    Expert Clay Pigeon's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by rhino View Post
    It just keeps getting better and better.

    How long can someone keep digging the hole in which they are standing before it becomes too difficult to toss the dirt out of the hole? At some point it just keeps falling back into the hole, inexorably burying the digger.
    Soon the rebuttal dissertations will be a page long.
    "Too much agreement kills a chat." ~Eldridge Cleaver

  10. #560
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    Quote Originally Posted by T.Lex View Post
    You can't say that anymore.

    Hi, I'm a religious person (Catholic, to be precise) and do not believe that science is trying to kill God. Nor is it even capable of doing so.

    On the other hand, I've seen a fair share of science-y types, like yourself, who try to convince everyone to reject God by quantification. The problem with that approach is that there are gaps.
    Don't put words into my mouth.
    It's your Constitutional right to practice what ever religion you 'Feel' is right for you. Period.

    If *I* personally find religion convoluted, contradictory, the dogma a collection of fables & fragments from previous religions/beliefs, and the practitioners to talk endlessly about what others *Should* do, then do exactly the opposite of what they preach, than that's *MY* right under the Constitution.

    What your religious right doesn't extend to is being above US Law per the Constitution, or to infringe on others rights.
    That's where MY line is drawn.

    If you don't like that as a Catholic, move to Rome/Vatican where Catholic law prevails.

    Same for Muslims or any other religion.

    Keep your religion out of my Constitution, and you won't force me to defend that Constitution I'm sworn to protect.
    The Constitution isn't religion, religion isn't the Constitution, but if anyone actually declared actual war on your religion rights, the Constitution is on your side and I would defend your right to your religion.
    If you can't see the difference, then you need civics classes....


    Science is not 100% results based, otherwise there'd be no need to fudge the gravity calculations in deep space.
    Hold on there, your self righteous indignation, war on science mentality is overloading your grasp of even basic science.

    First off, 'Calculations' are predictions based on information at hand, by definition.
    This is how we *Think* it's going to work...
    Optimum word "Think", not default to dogma.

    Calculations/expectations & actual results are different things.
    Complete & utter failure of expectations/calculations is a very real possibility, and an acceptable result in science since factors NOT accounted for can crop up. That's why we design experiments to PROVE calculations/predictions and carry out those experiments, to prove/disprove any theories.

    Maybe that's why you have a hard time with science...
    It's the basics you are missing.

    Secondly, unless you an all knowing deity, and NOT human,
    Humans have exactly ONE scientific platform outside the solar system.
    Exactly NOTHING in 'Deep Space' out between galaxies.

    Humans are pissants in their solar system, and exactly ZERO in the Galaxy, with billions of galaxies in the universe.

    Since your total lack of basic terminology of astrophysics (grade school stuff), I'm pretty sure you don't have an IQ of 9,000 and/or are a 'Supreme Being' with advanced knowledge of the universe, Galaxy, or even solar system.
    What you *Think* you know all came from actually educated in the field of astrophysics, planetary sciences, ect.
    You did exactly ZERO of the postulation, scientific study, or actual science, just like me...

    So when you 'Presume' to tell me off, I know you are faking everything, grasping at straws, smoke & mirrors, and/or regurgitating something from a 'Science For Dummies' or worse yet, some science denier website.

    Now, just for clarification, I'm not an astrophysics major either.
    I'm just another pissant that had the most basic concepts explained to me (they needed visual aids and to talk real slow).
    The difference is, I don't pretend to know all, see all, pass judgment on things I don't understand.

    On the other hand, I do have a pretty good education, and grasp on BASIC science.
    Weights & measures, metallurgy, basic chemical reactions, etc.
    There is a reason I can differentiate between basic hard science, practical science, chemical science, etc.

    The same way I'm sure you can differentiate between the Catholic version of the father, son, holy ghost since that's been your life long ongoing education.

    Or depend on the magic of "dark matter" to explain the calculation conundrum about how much mass there is in the universe to support the Big Bang. Heck, the Heisenberg Principle rejects the precision of measuring quantum states outright.
    Why do you dismiss 'Dark Mater', Or 'Dark Energy' as 'Magic'?
    What is your basis in your particular field of study that suggests either doesn't exist?

    *IF* you had studied even the most simple aspects of 'Dark Energy' or 'Dark Matter' you would know these names are place holders until research can investigate and explain exactly what's happening.
    It's easier than 'X Energy' or 'X Matter', although I'm sure those educated on comic books would disagree,
    But if you name every phenomenon 'X', then you spend hours sorting out WHICH 'X' someone is talking about.

    Gravity would be 'X' since it's not fully understood and we can't reproduce it,
    Magnetism would be an 'X' since it's origins aren't fully understood,
    Genetics would be an 'X' since we can't reproduce active genes,

    In the same plane of thinking, all religions would be 'X' since none of them can be scientifically explained or reproduced.

    That field of 'X's is filling up fast!

    Whether reflecting Aquinian or Hegelian principles of philosophy and science, the reality is - and this is an objective reality - there is no requirement to divorce God from science.
    First religion & science, now philosophy & science...
    Why do you I sit that science doesn't stand alone, on its own?
    It's that circular argument with zero logic,
    Science MUST be a product of God since got made man and man developed science....
    Again, the presumption of 'God' as a constant, tangible, scientific proven truth.
    You can't start with a negative, empty hole and work from there anywhere but religion.

    Science doesn't 'Presume' there is a force or nature unless that force of nature presents itself and can be examined.

    -----------

    I'm perfectly aware at this point all this is going to bounce right off.
    The science as a war on religion is too deeply ingrained for you to accept science as since,
    And to understand science stands alone from religion, or philosophy, or whatever.
    You have simply been exposed to the slogans too many times to differentiate on your own.

    I'm also aware there is an entire generation that has swallowed so many big lies it's impossible to differentiate.
    War On Religion,
    Communism vs Capitalism,
    Science isn't real,

    If it fits on a bumper sticker, or meme, and it's repeated enough times (like cult chants) people believe it...


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