US Destroyer and Japanese merchant collide, 7 missing.

[Spear Dane]

If you've always wanted to be a destroyer captain send in your resume. This one is toast.

US Navy destroyer takes on water after collision - CNNPolitics.com

 

[Sylvain]

Not much is known yet.

Apparently 7 US sailors are missing.

Here's the container ship that is reported to have hit the US Navy ship.

You can see the damage to the container ship in this article.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/16/us-navy-destroyer-collides-ship-japan#img-1

 

[Caleb]

How is this even allowed to happen?

 

[hoosierdoc]

not sure "allowed to happen" is the question so much as "possible given today's technology"

both ships should have collision avoidance technology fired up

Sucks for the missing seven

 

[Sylvain]

not sure "allowed to happen" is the question so much as "possible given today's technology"

both ships should have collision avoidance technology fired up

Sucks for the missing seven

I don't know anything about ships but since one is a military ship, with possibly some kind of steatlh technology, maybe she didn't show on the commercial ship radar's?

The whole thing happened at night too.
The container ship might have been on autopilot and nobody on the bridge.

 

[Alamo]

The Arleigh Burke class destroyers have some "stealthy" features, but "stealth" is a relative to size and distance. When close enough to bump into each other, somebody on both ships should have seen sumpin', radar or not. Even if it wasn't the destroyer at primary fault for the collision, its commanding officer is going to be relieved for allowing his ship to get into a position where somebody else's boo-boo damaged his ship. Tough first month on the job for him.

 

[HubertGummer]

I think Gordon Lightfoot had a song about that ship.

 

[Wild Deuce]

*

 

[Sylvain]

With seven missing crew, relieved of command might be the luckiest but least likely outcome for the Commanding Officer.

Still, let's see what happens when all the facts come in.

From what I read the captain is among the injured and was evacuated by helicopter.

 

[hoosierdoc]

I don't know anything about ships but since one is a military ship, with possibly some kind of steatlh technology, maybe she didn't show on the commercial ship radar's?

The whole thing happened at night too.
The container ship might have been on autopilot and nobody on the bridge.

I'd think our systems plot the courses of other ships and have collision warning systems. It shouldn't matter what the container is doing, we should not get hit by it. I fear this is human error, something preventable.

 

[oldpink]

As someone who spent quite a bit of time aboard a destroyer (one of the much older and now all gone Charles F. Adams class), this is infuriating and inexcusable.

 

[a.bentonab]

I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but can anyone else think of a plausible way that kind of damage could have been done to a destroyer other than the narrative we are getting?

I just cannot fathom that a cargo ship could "sneak up" on a modern US destroyer without ANYONE on EITHER ship realizing it?

 

[GunSlinger]

My prayers are for the missing crew members. Prayerfully they are found soon and in good health.

Speaking from the perspective of a USN Airedale (spent a lot of time on the USS Saratoga) even on a moonless night with cloud cover and dense fog the radar ops crew on the Fitzgerald should have seen the container ship at least six miles away. Looking at the damage on both ships you can see they were both bow forward at impact.

The Captain is living in past tense. If the missing crew members are not found or dead below decks he will be lucky to breathe fresh air or see sunlight ever again.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Gunslinger I think my uncle was on the Saratoga in the 70s. When were you aboard?

 

[oldpink]

I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but can anyone else think of a plausible way that kind of damage could have been done to a destroyer other than the narrative we are getting?

I just cannot fathom that a cargo ship could "sneak up" on a modern US destroyer without ANYONE on EITHER ship realizing it?

That damage looks mild compared to what happened to the USS Belknap (the first in its own class of guided missile cruisers) when it collided with the USS John F. Kennedy (conventionally fueled aircraft carrier), as shown here:

Here's what Belknap (CG-26) looked like before the rearrangement of its superstructure:

Here's the damage to the John F. Kennedy:

btw...in all, seven men were killed in this particular incident (coincidental to the current debacle), six on the Belknap and one on the JFK.

 

[Birds Away]

Eternal Father, strong to save,
Whose arm hath bound the restless wave,
Who bidd'st the mighty ocean deep
Its own appointed limits keep;
Oh, hear us when we cry to Thee,
For those in peril on the sea!​


Collisions at sea happen. It's almost always a domino effect of errors that lead to this. The merchant ship would most likely have only one junior officer on the bridge. The ship was most probably on automatic pilot or "iron mike" as we used to call it. They don't station lookouts and the officer may or may not have been on the bridge or even awake.

The fact that the Captain of the Fitzgerald was injured severely enough to be medevaced leads me to believe he was on the bridge at the time of collision. Given that it was 0230 that means he must have been summoned by the Officer of the Deck who believed the ship was in extremis.

In normal steaming situation you would have at least two Officers on the bridge and 5-7 enlisted watchstanders. Normally there would be three lookouts, one on either bridge wing and one aft on the fantail. In low visibility this would be augmented by additional lookouts.

Without seeing the surface picture any guesses as to how this happened would be pure speculation. Some of the factors that can come into play are:
-Atmospheric conditions which can play hell with radar.

-Proximity to land or other hazards to navigation.

-Density of shipping traffic including small fishing vessels. This can severely complicate the problem.

-Other tasks. Particularly for the Combat Information Center which assists the bridge in sorting out the surface picture and makes recommendations to the bridge for contact avoidance. Often, particularly on the mid watch, they are involved in exercises with other ships of the Battle Group. These aren't necessarily all that important but can be a distraction to the watchstanders.

-The ship's tasking. Often a ship is under orders to arrive at a specific time the next morning to participate in a particular exercise, be in position to enter port, etc. This can, however artificially, put the onus on the Bridge Officers to maintain a specific course and speed to arrive at the designated location on time.

-Speed restrictions. Sometimes ships are prohibited from exceeding certain speeds due to fuel conservation edicts from above. Captain's can override this but would have to explain it later. A new Captain might not want to do that if he or she didn't have to.

-Fatigue. The watchstanders were three hours into their mid watch. It's not uncommon for Officers and enlisted to get little if any sleep prior to a mid watch. Officers who are bridge watch standers are usually Department heads or senior division officers with lots of primary and collateral duties other than their watch duties. Fatigue tends to be cumulative and this is rarely acknowledged but so common in the Navy that it is considered normal.

-Forward deployment. Ships forward deployed to Japan are not on the cyclical calendar like ships homeported in the U.S. U.S. Battle Groups have a training curve that they go through prior to deployment. Ships that are forward deployed don't go through this cycle. Although they are required to complete certain "team training" sometimes, because of the ship's schedule these things take a lower priority. I'm sure, given the political and threat situation over there that these types of things would be the first to go.

-New Captain Syndrome. Every Captain has his or her own way of doing things. It takes a crew several months to get used to it. Usually this is a very minor consideration but sometimes the Captain's individual personality makes this much more difficult.

Any or all of these things can contribute to accidents.

Note: I have seen lots of collision at sea investigation reports. I have seen a lot of Captain's relieved. I have never seen or heard of a Captain going to jail.

 

[Birds Away]

That damage looks mild compared to what happened to the USS Belknap (the first in its own class of guided missile cruisers)

Actually, the Belknap wasn't considered to be in its own class until after it was rebuilt following the collision. Prior to that it was the lead ship of it's class which was a variation of the Leahy class of cruisers. They were exact duplicates of the Leahys except the Leahy class were double enders (they had twin armed Mark 10 missile launchers fore and aft). The Belknaps had a 5"54 in lieu of the aft missile launcher.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belknap-class_cruiser

 

[KittySlayer]

Amateur version of America's Cup?

 

[oldpink]

Actually, the Belknap wasn't considered to be in its own class until after it was rebuilt following the collision. Prior to that it was the lead ship of it's class which was a variation of the Leahy class of cruisers. They were exact duplicates of the Leahys except the Leahy class were double enders (they had twin armed Mark 10 missile launchers fore and aft). The Belknaps had a 5"54 in lieu of the aft missile launcher.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belknap-class_cruiser

Yep
I awkwardly worded it, but I meant to say that it was the first of its class, even though it didn't really start out that way.
As a side note to everyone else, BA knows of what he speaks, a retired Operations Specialist Master Chief (E-9), which means well north of twenty years of active duty, probably north of thirty, much of it either in the pilot house area monitoring radar and other instruments or supervising other Operations Specialists in the area.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

Looking at this through a truck drivers eyes , I'm used to dodging people , cars and things in confined spaces in a big truck but that's Army training for ya . Tnh navy has the whole freakin ocean and STILL manages to hit stuff with their boats, WTF navy ?