List your shooters, part 2

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    hoosierdaddy1976

    I Can't Believe it's not Shooter
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    16   0   0
    Mar 17, 2011
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    Also, to continue the discussion, I miss Paul as a mod, too. The one time I had a PM conversation with a mod was with him; he clarified the reason he nudged me back from the line I was toeing and we came to an amicable resolution.
     

    PaulF

    Shooter
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    8   0   0
    Apr 4, 2009
    3,045
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    Indianapolis
    I agree that happens. But often the consternation has a reason beyond just a different opinion. Cases in point: level.eleven, david890, even ddrees, and sometimes you. To the extent that it appears people are here to dissent just to troll, they tend not to be well treated. But admittedly those people are often enough mistaken as trolls.

    The whole "trolling" issue isn't as clear-cut on INGO as it might be on other forums.

    One thing I have noticed time and again is how emotionally people tend to react to controversial topics of conversation, and how those emotions can dramatically change the direction of that conversation. In a group like ours, where a large number of users tend to agree on topics considered controversial in broader society, users that advance incongruent or outright opposing viewpoints are are often mocked for wrongthink or accused of trolling.

    Trolls don't really serve an important purpose, but diversity of ideas does.

    When I started as a mod I saw my role as "rule enforcer" (like an INGO cop), and I acted when I saw violations of INGO rules. As my role developed, I began to see it less as gatekeeping rule breakers, and more like a referee in professional rasslin'. In the INGO rasslin' league most of the competitors cast themselves in the role of "Hero", and since we are so ideologically homogenous here, anyone with an opposing view gets forced into the role of "Heel". A lot of the time I gave the "heels" a little more leeway than the "heros", otherwise there wouldn't be enough competitors to field a match.

    We need "heels". We need guys that aren't afraid to express opposing ideas. Without them our discussions become echo chambers filled with straw men and overconfident ideologues.

    By the end of my tenure as a mod, my "prime directive" was to keep things from getting personal between users...argue all you want, make it passionate, heated even...but don't make it personal. If you go back and view my actions as a mod while keeping in mind my motivations, you may see things differently. I did what I did to try to keep INGO as welcoming as possible to all gun owners, including those with opposing viewpoints.

    The mods do a good job here, and they always have. No one cares more about INGO than those guys. I still include myself in that group, at least.
     
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    jamil

    code ho
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 17, 2011
    60,142
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    Gtown-ish
    Continuing where we left off...


    In your post the 1st 2 "X" members you mentioned were serious trolls. Angry.
    Ddrees is fixed in his beliefs as we all are. Kut.................well......................there is only 1 Kut. Devils advocate extraordinaire.
    And yes, when Kut is on the job I have to go look. Amazed/enlightened/confused pretty much covers this.
    We all add something to the mix in here. I miss some of the guys that were voices in opposition to the norm. When they went nuclear death by mod they left a hole in the Forum. Some of those holes have never been filled. Some I hope never are. If I/we can keep the ebb and flow headed in a given direction that is the best way we see to Moderate the site. If I can go a month with out dusting off "Mighty Mouse" (hammer) I am good with that.

    If I see a poster who seems to have contempt for the people he or she disagrees with, it is most natural to treat that poster with a bit more vinegar than someone who generally just disagrees with me. And it works the other way too. Most of the posters here have a right leaning view, and with some of them, anyone left of them they view with contempt. And it shows in how they interact.

    Although I had some objections with PaulF at the time, I actually think the forum benefited to have him (or someone like him) as a differing viewpoint when it comes to moderation.

    When on the surface it's one mod doing all the work (obviously it's not, but bear with me here)... they have their way of moderating. They see certain things certain ways. I have to imagine you and PaulF have some pretty differing views on the big subjects that get discussed here.

    So you're good at catching these sorts of offenders.... and Paul would be good at recognizing and catching the others.

    ... I dunno, sort of rambling... but I think MrJarrell would still be around if someone with perhaps views closer to him was on the mod team. People didn't like him, and he was dogpiled until he reacted poorly and got banned. If people **** on you all day, and you're expected to take it in stride... where's the fun in participating on the forum? Mods tended to side with the people that **** on him, so those people didn't (seemingly) get punished. But when J lashed out... Bam, red flag, gone. (I know there's more to it, but that's how it looks on the surface)

    I think any INGO mod needs to be pro-2A. That goes without saying. But there are also subjects outside of guns that we're all over the place on, lots of different and strong opinions here, and that's awesome.

    I don't know the demographics of the rest of the mod team, so maybe this is already the case. Paul brought that non-Republican, non-Religious, middle-of-the-ground type of view to the forum. He laid some moderation decisions down that I don't think other mods would have necessarily spoke up on.

    It's a good point. But about MrJarrell specifically, he had a lot of contempt, especially for Christians. You can't go mocking people for their religious beliefs and then have those people you've insulted behave friendly towards you.
     

    churchmouse

    I still care....Really
    Emeritus
    Rating - 100%
    187   0   0
    Dec 7, 2011
    191,809
    152
    Speedway area
    Continuing where we left off...




    If I see a poster who seems to have contempt for the people he or she disagrees with, it is most natural to treat that poster with a bit more vinegar than someone who generally just disagrees with me. And it works the other way too. Most of the posters here have a right leaning view, and with some of them, anyone left of them they view with contempt. And it shows in how they interact.



    It's a good point. But about MrJarrell specifically, he had a lot of contempt, especially for Christians. You can't go mocking people for their religious beliefs and then have those people you've insulted behave friendly towards you.

    And in this I see the same things. If every thread you come into is disrupted by your posting then you go up on the big board.
    Civil discussion. Paul made this point at the end of the last thread. And it is a good point.
     
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