Bob Rohrman's in Fort Wayne sucks...avoid at all costs...

[Freebird01]

Ok so here is my story take it for what its worth....

I got to the point i needed to find another vehicle. wife said i was driving junk and needed something reliable. I spent weeks searching for something to fit our budget (which is not very big) and managed to stumble across a 2010 mustang at Rohrman's... after my wife talked to the salesman over it she found out it had a terrible car fax and it was at schaumberg ford in IL. The sales man then said that they had a 2005 Mustang GT at the Suburu lot on Coliseum. its black on black, leather interior, V-8, 5 speed with 92,000 miles on it and in our price range...BINGO!

So the salesman actually brings it to the college i work at for me to look at it...its raining...hard. i looked it over the best i could (im not an idiot with cars) and drove it. it had a bunch of cosmetic flaws but nothing earth shattering. it is a 12yr old car with 92k on it. and the defects would allow me to customize it the way i wanted.

So we go to the lot and deal with a salesman bait and switch. ive been around dealers my whole life in some form or another and i know the game. went back and forth and ended up there for like 5 hours till they finally came around to the financing i wanted. great! i get my car!

Driving home that night the check engine light comes on. i was furious but ok... car has a 3 month/3,000 mile warranty. Next morning i get a hold of the salesman who proceeds to give me a giant run around and whether or not they will cover the repair work. Took them 2 days to agree to schedule a service. in the mean time you can hear a wheel bearing is bad while driving it when its not wet out and there is a knocking from the bellhousing area. @##@!@!! Great!

So i get my appointment for the following tuesday. (i picked the car up on a monday...) so after 1 week it goes into their shop which is fort wayne kia service. I had pulled the codes with my bluetooth code scanner and told them what they were, wrote them a long note on the drop-off ticket of what the car was doing and in what context it was doing it. since its a Kia garage they couldnt do the diagnostics on the ecu for some reason... they send it to Bob Thomas Ford (this will have major significance later). Bob Thomas says it needs an ECM, that it was flashed with an aftermarket programmer and they cannot reflash it back to factory. So they order one through Napa (i know..should have been ford) and Napa sends the wrong one. Ford finally gets the right one through Napa and gets the car fixed. This part of the process now has it at 2 weeks later. I am not happy but i do understand things take time. Car goes back to Kia garage where they put a ball joint and a wheel bearing on it. They then send it back to the Suburu lot where it was traded in at for the trans noise. The suburu lot had put a slave cylinder in so if that was the issue they needed to make the repair due to part warranty.

Suburu screws around another week. At this point im talking directly to the sales manager and the service manager at Kia. I called the Service manager at suburu just to talk to him to let him hear first hand what the car was doing and in what context because I know how messages are lost in translation.

Guy proceeds to get real ignorant with me on the car and denies there is any issue with it. I was fuming at this point. i was so pissed i was sitting there shaking after getting off the phone. I called the sales manager at Kia and lit his voicemail up then talked to the service manager at kia and gave him an earful. (now we are at 3 weeks of them having the car. So i give it a day and i call back to find out the status and the service manager at kia finally got upset with the run around he was getting from the suburu guy and pulled the car from their lot and sent it to Jess Lewis transmissions here in fort wayne. (this is now garage #4 it was sent to) and they said that it was missing bellhousing bolts and the noise was the engine/trans spacer plate hitting the flywheel. i did my own research and found out this is a common issue with these cars so i buy it and supposedly all is well. 4 weeks to the day i finally get my car back.

Tuesday this week i go pick up the car. they took care of the repairs. didnt cost me a dime. wheel bearing noise fixed, no trans noise, car runs way better (it was running so rich on that aftermarket tune that it was burning my wifes eyes to follow me to the dealership). Great its fixed! or so i thought....

Wednesday morning this week i get up and go through my morning routine, take my kid to the sitters, and on my way from there to work the engine light comes back on... so lunch time i run home and grab my scanner and check the codes... now it throws a code for the PATS system and one for the Catalytic converter on bank 2. So i call the sales manager right away and he says it will go back to ford since they put the ecm in it. ok no problem...make the appointment and let me know...

so nothing all day wednesday, thursday not a peep, yesterday i get pissed and called the sales manager and asked him why i dont have an appointment yet. he claims he has left multiple messages with ford service and they are not getting back to him. he give me the guys name over there and his number and said since its going there im welcome to call them myself. thats what i did. i picked up the phone, called the service manager at bob thomas ford and in 10 minutes had an appointment. this guy says he never got a message from rohrmans. either someone in his office never passed on the message or the guy at rohrmans is lying. im giving the sales manager the benefit of the doubt with how pissy he got when i called him out on it today...but anyway...back to the story...

i have a great convo about the car with the manager at bob thomas. seems the tech that worked on the car knew it and its previous owner personally. i found out that the car had a junkyard motor swapped into it BY BOB ROHRMAN'S SUBURU after it was traded in. this was NEVER on the car fax and was never disclosed to me at the time of purchase. So i asked the service guy at bob thomas to pass my number along tot he tech and have him call me later after work and give me the full story on the car. The guy agreed to.

I'm the mean time i have a conversation with the sales manager again. this time i'm royally pissed that i now have a car that has been in their possession for 1/3 of my warranty that has a motor in it with unknown mileage or condition and it needs to go back into a garage again. I told him they need to take this car back and refund my down money at this point. he was going to go talk to his general manager...

Yesterday afternoon the tech calls me....

Turns out the car belonged to his best friend. guy had a bunch of stuff done to the original motor (cams, CAI, aftermarket intake, headers, exhaust, cat delete, custom stereo, custom tune on the ecu from brenspeed). None of this is earth shattering. its a black on black v8 5spd car....its built to be a toy for sure. well the guy tried to install cams and it was too much for him so he took it to a local mineke where they proceeded to screw things up... cam phaser on wrong... had the timing all screwed up. this guy didnt know it and drove the car for a year until it managed to wipe out a cam. they get the motor back together...he beats on it for another year... goes to put headers and a cat delete on it and had meineke do it again... they screw up the headers because the flanges were warped (probably cheap headers)... later on they ended up putting factory manifolds back on the car.... he somehow managed to put the car into a ditch (explains the broken headlight tab and the stress cracks in the bumper covers paint front and back). then something else happens that the motor dies again. thinking its this hot tune he had brenspeed put on it. he bandaids the motor together...fills it with lucas and trades it in on a brand new suburu. suburu managed to figure out the motor was junk...they got a junk yard engine and put it in the car...did a **** poor job of it too. all the aftermarket parts are now missing except for the fancy shifter knob ($200 raxiom light up knob) and the stereo head unit. They managed to get the harness over the trans that all the o2 sensors upside down. so the pass sensors are pluged into the drivers side sockets and vice versa. They had plugs up on the intake switched with knock sensor plugs. the trim over the hood latch is just laying there with NO fasteners in it. The air cleaner is barely attached to the inner fender and was open and not latched down. they had one of the o2 sensor plugs laying on the manifold which melted the plug (wires still ok)

So this morning the sales manage calls me and tries to tell me the only thing they can do is either fix the car or trade it for another one on their lot. at that point i lit him up with all the new information i learned about the car and the fact that suburu replaced the engine (the junkyard writing is still on the intake) and never disclosed it along with all the other stuff they screwed up... told the guy what is going to happen is i will bring this car back to you and you will return my down money and all ties will be severed or i will be in contact with a lawyer...


i ##$@!@#$!! hate car dealers....

 

[femurphy77]

Does indiana have lemon laws?

 

[Freebird01]

yep...applies to new and used

 

[femurphy77]

Sounds like you have firm footing but the famous "IANAL" applies. Give them the opportunity to correct it w/o lawyers, it's better for both in the long run. Sounds like thru the chain of responsibility a LOT of information was lost. Dealers for the most part suck and salesmen will lie to you every time, the only thing they are interested is the commission! I bought a boat several years ago and had expressed an interest in a different boat because there was no wood in the construction of the other brand. The salesman I was then dealing with stood right there while I was pointing at the wood in the structure telling me it wasn't wood but some of that composite stuff they make. Yeah right.

 

[x10]

The lemon law is pretty hard to invoke, first of all documentation is key. When I had a Mercury mariner that DID qualify for the Lemon Law It had to be in the shop for over 30 day's for the same issue. The final settlement was with Ford directly not the dealership. And basically they gave me the difference of the trade in value and the purchase price Which was still less than the pay off so I ended up trading for a chevy and using the settlement to break even. AND the Money came as a customer loyalty reward. Ford never admitted to any deficiency in the vehicle

 

[Freebird01]

I've been trying to do that so far...the last thing I want to do is involve a lawyer...but on the same token what they have done is not right....the sales manager to his credit has stood by the warranty and has been good about paying the repair bill. Once the salesman was out of the picture things went a bit smoother....but knowing what I know now (and I'm sure they didn't know) with the engine...it's time they take it back. I didn't pay a premium for a car with a questionable drivetrain. That's not how it was sold or presented. Especially knowing suburu put the engine in it and purposely left that off the Carfax.

The thing is, it doesn't matter whether they knew it or not at the time... It's still their responsibility to make it right.

 

[Freebird01]

The lemon law is pretty hard to invoke, first of all documentation is key. When I had a Mercury mariner that DID qualify for the Lemon Law It had to be in the shop for over 30 day's for the same issue. The final settlement was with Ford directly not the dealership. And basically they gave me the difference of the trade in value and the purchase price Which was still less than the pay off so I ended up trading for a chevy and using the settlement to break even. AND the Money came as a customer loyalty reward. Ford never admitted to any deficiency in the vehicle

It was in the shop for 30 days...and is scheduled to go back in. If not lemon law with the lack of disclosure on the engine I could be possibly looking at a fraud case.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Im not sure I would **** on Rohrman if he was on fire.

I had an interaction with him back in the 90s when I was a teen. I was working the flight line at Greenwood airport and he and his entourage flew in on his private plane. They got out and I approached the group. I greeted the group asking if they needed anything today, how their fuel was, etc.

He looked down his nose at me like I was a leper and literally shooed me toward the others by waving the back of his hand at me. Not a word was spoken in response to my greeting or my query. I was literally not worthy to speak to him. (or so he acted)

I'll NEVER EVER do business with someone that arrogant and rude. Never.

 

[Trigger Time]

I'm still trying to figure out the part where "wife said I was driving junk and needed something reliable"
But you went and bought a sports car with 92,000 miles (so we know it's had the **** drove out of it being a sports type car)
I would have heard the word reliable and thinking more along the lines of a Taurus or similar and probably for the same price much lower miles. But ok now that I said what I was thinking: yeah they ****ed you good and probably knew it and sounds like they were running the clock out on you so,you'd have no legal recourse. Good luck

 

[Freebird01]

Well...when your driving a POS Chevy tracker or an f150 with more problems then you can shake a stick at something newer with lower miles is more reliable... Just because I don't want a Taurus or a camery or some other boring car that fits your definition of reliable doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad one. My commute is short so fuel mileage is inconsequential...I was looking at trucks too when this came up for discussion... I owned a 2005 mustang before and loved the car. I traded it when I moved to Indiana for something better for all the travelling. Unfortunately it was a 2013 kia Sportage that met an untimly demise to a Pennsylvania white tail in one of said trips...

 

[churchmouse]

And just verification as to why I will no longer have any business dealings with the glass palaces. They are in business to gather revenue. This is the mandate. I have no issue with a business making money just do it honestly.

My last few dealer purchases were through a life long friend and they went very well. Thing is, he is retired now. I have been in the showrooms since and the blather that falls out of a salesman's mouth is just that.....blather.

I deal with individuals these days. I find the vehicle I want and roll from there. You can get your own financing. It is very easily done.

 

[churchmouse]

Well...when your driving a POS Chevy tracker or an f150 with more problems then you can shake a stick at something newer with lower miles is more reliable... Just because I don't want a Taurus or a camery or some other boring car that fits your definition of reliable doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad one. My commute is short so fuel mileage is inconsequential...I was looking at trucks too when this came up for discussion... I owned a 2005 mustang before and loved the car. I traded it when I moved to Indiana for something better for all the travelling. Unfortunately it was a 2013 kia Sportage that met an untimly demise to a Pennsylvania white tail in one of said trips...

This also puts the "CarFax" in a bad light.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Well...when your driving a POS Chevy tracker or an f150 with more problems then you can shake a stick at something newer with lower miles is more reliable... Just because I don't want a Taurus or a camery or some other boring car that fits your definition of reliable doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad one. My commute is short so fuel mileage is inconsequential...I was looking at trucks too when this came up for discussion... I owned a 2005 mustang before and loved the car. I traded it when I moved to Indiana for something better for all the travelling. Unfortunately it was a 2013 kia Sportage that met an untimly demise to a Pennsylvania white tail in one of said trips...

I think the point is a sports car is more likely to be beaten on than a "boring car". Particularly a modified one. Same with motorcycles. A 40k mile sport bike and a 40k Goldwing are not equally likely to be thrashed.

It's always worth the cost of an independent inspection before purchase if you're not qualified and equipped to do it yourself. An often expensive life lesson many of us have learned.

 

[Freebird01]

This also puts the "CarFax" in a bad light.

Yes and no.... the Carfax will only report what's reported to them. If a stealership doesn't report it then it's on them not Carfax.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

This also puts the "CarFax" in a bad light.

Carfax should be used in conjunction with an inspection. They both have blind spots, but together should give you a good idea of what you're buying.

 

[Freebird01]

I think the point is a sports car is more likely to be beaten on than a "boring car". Particularly a modified one. Same with motorcycles. A 40k mile sport bike and a 40k Goldwing are not equally likely to be thrashed.

It's always worth the cost of an independent inspection before purchase if you're not qualified and equipped to do it yourself. An often expensive life lesson many of us have learned.

How am I the one in the wrong here and on trial by you guys?... The car was not advertised as modified...I found all that out after the fact... The car was advertised as a clean low mileage car...the price reflected as much. There were some clues yes....and maybe I should have looked it over a bit closer...but what was done here by the dealer is completely wrong. There is no way to spin that otherwise.

 

[churchmouse]

Yes and no.... the Carfax will only report what's reported to them. If a stealership doesn't report it then it's on them not Carfax.

This is exactly the point.
Joe average rely's on the car fax. It can be bypassed. I have seen it done.
Buddy's brother bought a new Camaro with the big engine. He is one of those guys that should not own a Hot-Rod. You know the type.
He put it in a ditch showing off. The ditch was full of large stone. The kind used to keep erosion in check. Minimal body damage but the entire engine cradle was junk. He paid for the repair out of pocket to keep it off the car fax. When he got it back he traded it off for a truck. Someone bought that car not knowing it had $12K damage under it.
Not everyone can afford to do this but those cars are out there.........Seems you have one of them. No knock on you at all. I am just making a solid point in this.

 

[churchmouse]

How am I the one in the wrong here and on trial by you guys?... The car was not advertised as modified...I found all that out after the fact... The car was advertised as a clean low mileage car...the price reflected as much. There were some clues yes....and maybe I should have looked it over a bit closer...but what was done here by the dealer is completely wrong. There is no way to spin that otherwise.

I think you are not seeing the points being made here. BBI is not holding you accountable. He is pointing out the holes in the Stealership system.
I will have to agree at some level that buying that car with those miles on it would have might be problematic at some level. Again, no knock on you personally.

 

[Tyler-The-Piker]

OR
we could jus change yer oil

 

[Rookie]

How am I the one in the wrong here and on trial by you guys?... The car was not advertised as modified...I found all that out after the fact... The car was advertised as a clean low mileage car...the price reflected as much. There were some clues yes....and maybe I should have looked it over a bit closer...but what was done here by the dealer is completely wrong. There is no way to spin that otherwise.

I think you're taking it wrong. The lesson that people are trying to enforce (so others may learn) is that independent inspections should be done before signing. Just like a house, the seller will rarely admit to problems with the hopes that the buyer misses them until after closing.