The Skilled Labor Crisis

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  • CountryBoy19

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 91.7%
    11   1   0
    Nov 10, 2008
    8,412
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    Bedford, IN
    I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but I think I have a little insight into things that hopefully point toward a correction. These insights come from 2 different sources.

    For those that don't know, unemployment is low, jobs are up. We have a record number of people on welfare (many by their choice) and we have employers that CANNOT find acceptable employees.

    I spoke with an electrician friend of mine. His company recently when through over 30 employees to get 5 or 6 keepers. They are desperate for workers that show up, care about the job, and aren't on drugs. Starting pay for somebody with NO experience is $18/hr. Their experience is that age/generation play NO factor in willingness to work. They tried young guys, they didn't want to work, they tried middle-age guys, they didn't want to work either. The ones they found willing to work? Young guys with a family they have to support.


    Other perspective: My wife is a school teacher, they recently had an in-service where an employment agency came in and spoke to them about the skills gap, or the lack of skilled workers willing to work. He spoke about how much they are paying right now in various careers with or w/o experience etc. At the end of his speech the school administrator got up and had to calm things down a bit because this agency is paying starting wages for no college-education, no-experience workers that rivals the pay of the teachers that were in attendance. I think there were several teachers or aides that were seriously considering quitting their job to go work for this agency. My wife could QUIT her job that she had to get a college education for, pay out of pocket to provide supplies for, pay to maintain a state-mandated license for, and go work a skilled job for more money starting out than she is making now with 7 years employment in her field.

    This is a problem, and I don't think it has gotten the attention it deserves. This problem has been a long-time coming, and VERY few people are doing anything to upright the wagon. Schools don't teach skilled trades anymore (very few do), parents don't emphasize skilled trades anymore, kids don't have any interest in skilled trades anymore.

    Oh, that electrician, he said that if he were to start his own company today, he could be a millionaire in 5 years there is so much work out there.
     

    rhino

    Grandmaster
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    24   0   0
    Mar 18, 2008
    30,906
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    Indiana
    Mike Rowe needs to keep hammering this message to people on a national level.

    Maybe your wife and your colleagues really should change careers. They'd be better off financially and it would be a lot easier for the schools to find warm bodies to occupy their vacant seats than it is for the employers who hire skilled tradesmen.

    There are some schools that offering impressive options for students to learn useful skills. My best friend's son is going to get his CDL, a welding certificate, and probably a few other things before he graduates.

    I think the problem is less of what the schools do or do not offer than it is of the unjustified elitism of the American public. Somehow we've gotten to a point where people not only believe that everyone must go to college, but also that it doesn't matter what college or what you study. Heck, if most kids in college just learned how to learn and how to communicate effectively, we'd be in great shape. As it is, too many of them are in college to get a participation certificate and play. If they were more rigor in the curricula and higher standards, we could fix that. Unfortunately, colleges view students as customers rather than as pupils and it's mostly because of the influx of easy loan money.
     
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    UTL

    Marksman
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 1, 2015
    227
    16
    Central Indiana
    Everyone wants to be a teacher, no one wants to be a roofer/electrician/carpenter/tradesman. Supply and demand. You can easily make 60k a year working any of those trades in the first 3 years if you are halfway motivated. Its been like that for 20+ YEARS.
     

    Hop

    Grandmaster
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    16   0   0
    Jan 21, 2008
    5,084
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    Indy
    On the flip side there are companies unwilling to pay an educated US citizen (technology field, nursing field, etc...) and are spending big lobbiest $$$ to convince politicians to let in more H1B visa foreign workers.

    A former co-worker manager buddy told me he has no problem hiring a software engineer from China or India for mid $30k to save money. He just has trouble getting as many as he needs. New US citizen software engineers were starting @ 2x-3x that much.
     

    rhino

    Grandmaster
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    24   0   0
    Mar 18, 2008
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    Indiana
    On a related note: I have a BS in mechanical engineering from Rose-Hulman and an MS in mech eng from University of California at Berkeley, but I couldn't get any employers in central Indiana who hire engineers to even consider hiring me (probably in most cases due to a long gap in my work history resulting from a bad injury). I tried for years and even recruiters who specialize in placing engineers told me they couldn't help me.

    On the other hand, when I was in school I learned a lot more than just the engineering, science, and math. I learned how to teach myself new skills and I improved my ability to communicate verbally and in writing. Those two things make you employable, even if it's not in the field you intended. I also had to work really hard to graduate, which is . . . uncommon for many students of recent years.
     

    churchmouse

    I still care....Really
    Emeritus
    Rating - 100%
    187   0   0
    Dec 7, 2011
    191,809
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    Speedway area
    On the flip side there are companies unwilling to pay an educated US citizen (technology field, nursing field, etc...) and are spending big lobbiest $$$ to convince politicians to let in more H1B visa foreign workers.

    A former co-worker manager buddy told me he has no problem hiring a software engineer from China or India for mid $30k to save money. He just has trouble getting as many as he needs. New US citizen software engineers were starting @ 2x-3x that much.

    These are IT related jobs. ^^^^^^^

    My last 5 years or better in an HVAC-R service truck had me attempting to train the new guys. I use Attempting because that is what it was. A vain attempt to get the slouchers off the damn phones and picking up a screw driver. These young people are not taught anything towards the real world outside of Google.

    I grew up fixing/building things. No game box's in my youth. Just screw drivers and machines. No phones or Internets. We had to figure it out. Ask questions.. Seek out the knowledge. It stayed with us when we had to work at finding it. Those skills have carried me through this life very handily.
     

    rhino

    Grandmaster
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    24   0   0
    Mar 18, 2008
    30,906
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    Indiana
    These are IT related jobs. ^^^^^^^

    My last 5 years or better in an HVAC-R service truck had me attempting to train the new guys. I use Attempting because that is what it was. A vain attempt to get the slouchers off the damn phones and picking up a screw driver. These young people are not taught anything towards the real world outside of Google.

    I grew up fixing/building things. No game box's in my youth. Just screw drivers and machines. No phones or Internets. We had to figure it out. Ask questions.. Seek out the knowledge. It stayed with us when we had to work at finding it. Those skills have carried me through this life very handily.

    I think the fact that life is so easy for the last 25 years of kids is a related factor. Why would they want to suddenly work when they turn 18 when they've never had to do anything difficult before? Why would they accept responsibility when they have never been held responsible for anything before?
     

    Young William

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 24, 2012
    51
    8
    Here is Mike's website for the mikeroweWORKS Foundation.
    Profoundly Disconnected

    Tons of great interview out there where he explains the skill gap, lack of soft skills and of course people going to college for jobs that don't exist.
     

    K_W

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    8   0   0
    Aug 14, 2008
    5,385
    63
    Indy / Carmel
    I work in specialized retail, we prefer guys/gals with knowledge about the products we sell and their applications, or at least a willingness to learn, yet (being retail afterall) we will literally hire anyone with a pulse and enough IQ to suggest a sale and count out your change... We still can't get enough people to meet demand. Recently those that we have got to even show up on their first day, much less the training day, are rarely grateful for the chance to earn a living and show it by not showing up on time (if at all), finding any excuse to sneak off to the back to check their phones, and then complaining about getting pushed to the closing shift. Take a guess what generation these guys are.
     
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    steve0322

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 9, 2015
    319
    18
    Mooresville
    I work for a warehouse where we have roughly 500ish employees and we can't promote from within. We want to, but no one gives us reason to. These people have zero work ethic and basically refuse to go a little above and beyond, yet complain when they don't get promoted or even considered for an interview to possibly be promoted. It's not just those under 25 or 30 either. It's a lazy workforce out there.
     

    russc2542

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    24   0   0
    Oct 24, 2015
    2,111
    83
    Columbus
    I can say the pro-college message is 100% and exclusively what I heard growing up. "you have to go to college for any decent job" "so many jobs only will hire a college degree, any college degree" "what happens if you learn a trade then something happens and you can't do that one thing...you have no alternatives".

    Now there IS a grain of truth in there (one place I worked for a summer DID say they could only hire me full time only after getting a bachelors, even if it was underwater basket weaving but that was also after I'd been working hard with them for a summer and they knew I'd do the work) but it's vastly overstated as to the scope. Given that the mentality of most kids is that the degree qualifies them for the job I'd say the message has been distorted just a wee bit. Given the folks I saw get a degree alongside myself, it's just one small factor. Once upon a time, having the perseverance to get "any degree" meant something. that was before underwater basket weaving was available as a degree and getting a degree wasn't a baseline expectation.
     

    CountryBoy19

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 91.7%
    11   1   0
    Nov 10, 2008
    8,412
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    Bedford, IN
    I forgot to add 1 thing the employment agency relayed to my wife. They are now overlooking criminal history on all but the most critical jobs. If they can find somebody with a criminal history willing to work and that is drug-free, that person is hired, they just won't place them where criminal history is critical (school, day-care, etc). IMHO, that is a great thing for those with a criminal past that are now upstanding members of society, it's probably also a good thing for those with a history that are still trying to support their family etc (even if they aren't upstanding members of society), but it's truly a testament to how desperate this problem has gotten.
     

    Tactically Fat

    Grandmaster
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    22   0   0
    Oct 8, 2014
    8,270
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    Indiana
    My teacher wife (as opposed to my other wives) needs a new job...

    If only we could replicate salary/benefits.

    What agency came and spoke, OP? :-D
     

    CountryBoy19

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 91.7%
    11   1   0
    Nov 10, 2008
    8,412
    63
    Bedford, IN
    My teacher wife (as opposed to my other wives) needs a new job...

    If only we could replicate salary/benefits.

    What agency came and spoke, OP? :-D

    I don't have a clue, I could ask her and she would just say, "IDK, he was from an employment agency"... she doesn't care about the details...


    That being said, how do we fix this? I think a lot of the problem is a societal pressure to go to college. Can it be fixed by educating teachers and the teacher then pass-along to the students that blue-collar skilled-jobs are just as good as college jobs?


    Small anecdote: my younger brother never got any education outside of highschool. Through, and shortly after HS he worked for a road construction company running heavy machinery, sometimes he was working 70 hrs at an average pay-rate of $35/hr (right out of HS). Along the way he lucked into buying some property and such well below market value. Now, less than 10 years out of high-school if he were to sell everything he has and pay off his debts, he would be worth over $1M. I went to college, on a very good scholarship (minimal debt) and my wife did the same (minus the scholarship). If we sold everything we had we wouldn't come close to my brother's net-worth. Blue collar jobs are NOT bad, how do we convince the younger generation that there is value in that, and get them invigorated to pursue those jobs?
     

    jasonh31

    Marksman
    Rating - 66.7%
    2   1   0
    Feb 8, 2013
    163
    16
    North Manchester
    I work for a local orthopedic company. They only hire H1B engineers it seems on contract. They can't find machinists, polishers, or even people that package parts.
    They now offer ridiculous incentives for people that stay on the job more than 30,60,90 days. Unemployment is low and skilled workers aren't leaving their other jobs to come here.
     

    PGRChaplain

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Jan 13, 2011
    3,765
    83
    Waynedale (FT Wayne)
    No one wants to Work! My son works at an Automotive tier 1 Supplier. They use a Temp Company to screen new folks, Temp to Full Time. Temps start at $13.00 per hour. The only folks that their getting lately, ExCons and people that don't speak English........
     

    snapping turtle

    Grandmaster
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    6   0   0
    Dec 5, 2009
    6,462
    113
    Madison county
    Hmmm.
    Start at 13 an hour. Limited or no insurance no 401k no vacation no sick days Work hard. Maybe get a raise. Maybe get hired after 90 days and get a small raise maybe very limited insurance. "F that" is what people with a work ethic and pride with a small amount of brain power given in the local schools say. Why? Yet many brain dead folks will take that up and work it for a temp agency for a couple years while a permanent spot opens always coming soon. So we should.

    clear three yards buy a running lawn mower find yards that need mowed. By some fertilizer (weed and feed) sell to the people who's yards needed mowed and now you are mowing them more often. Start looking for odd jobs and passing out the snow and ice removal fliers. Notice gutters need cleaned clean gutters but you have to buy or borrow a ladder and a trash can. Find a kid to help out mowing set him to the dailies while you find new yards and buy a couple more mowers and edger a blower and a chainsaw. Hire the friends brother to run the chainsaw for you while his brother mows. Soon you are just dropping off three crews with your truck going back and collecting the cash getting gas and trimmer string. Cokes and ice. Making 32 an hour off the three crews working. The basic starter business that any kid with a work ethic and a small amount of brains can do in any small town in Indiana or the most of the USA.

    That is is what I did as a kid (started at 12) By 16 I was a lifeguard four days a week and running a small lawn business 3 day a week. By 17 I never mowed a lawn myself. Kept 3-5 guys busy most of the year and still pulled a40 hour week as a lifeguard. (A lifeguard did not pay well but it had benifits that far outweighs the limited cash)

    Or start a employment agency and make 2.50/5.00 an hour for each sucker you can get to show up and come to work for 13 an hour. If you can get into the tech temp business the 2.50-5 becomes like 7.5 -10 for each temp employee you get going and here is the kicker if the company the good temp works for want to hire after 6 months then you get a flat fee for getting them the correct one. Normally in the 3-5 k range. These so called temp to hire rackets are great for the temp to hire racketeering folks. They even advertise on TV during Jerry springer and late night after the bars close.

    Now skilled trades is great but do remember this is often a service based economy. ( Remember what those painters electrical workers and hvac guys were doing in 2008-2010 or longer) when the market tanks in construction those jobs dry up quick and don't come back quickly.

    heck the factory workers that FOXCONN is going to hire in Wisconsin to make those cell phone screens are robots. There are robots that build masonry walls fast straight and exactly to the print. Just need a load of bricks a fill of water and gen bags of mix. Wisconsin is most likely giving big tax breaks for a company that will employ but a very few from the area.

    Rant off. Good workers need good jobs with good employers that pay a nice living wage and benefits to allow that man or woman to spend time with family and show kids how to work so they become good employers paying good wages and nice insurance.
     

    wtfd661

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    10   0   0
    Dec 27, 2008
    6,467
    63
    North East Indiana
    My son is starting his third year in a five year apprenticeship program for the Plumber/Steamfitters union and I couldn't be more proud of him! He will be 24 years old when he gets his journeymen's card. At 24 years old his earning potential will be over 6 figures a year. He works Monday through Friday and during the school year they pay for his classes at night so when he is done he will have zero student debt. It amazes me that there isn't a line miles long waiting to put in applications for this program. He works his butt off everyday (he has been putting in 10 hour days for the past month and working 7 days a week due to being behind schedule on his current job site but normally works a 40 hour work week) and is earning his paycheck! I just can't understand anyone not willing to work for the opportunity to be financially secure.
     
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