Stranger With A Camera...Kentucky Man With A gun..Who Shot First?

[indiucky]

Last night on KET KY (our local PBS) ran a film by Elizabeth Barrett that is one of the most haunting films I have ever seen....It's my fourth time watching it and whenever it comes on I watch...The girls had gone to bed so I poured a Knob Creek straight into glass and set down to watch it again......Every time I watch it I go back and forth on Hobart Ison...Whenever that happens I feel a tinge of guilt....Am I, like Jamil and Kut say going "tribal"??? My grandfather grew up in rural Kentucky and feuds among families involving "killings" (not to be confused with "murder") are a part of family lore....The Louisville papers covered this story and the trial, (along with the NYT's and most major newspapers) and I remember the men in my family understanding, not condoning, Hobart's actions that faithful (fatal???) day.....We are from W Kentucky and even we knew you don't go in to the mountains of Eastern Kentucky putting camera's in folks place and trespassing on their land...I was going to pm this to Hough and Kirk but I decided to share with all of INGO instead....It raises questions as to what is self defense and depending on the time and place could killing someone you thought was "trying to make me look bad" in Hobart Ison's words justifiable?????

When thinking about Hobart and his actions I am reminded of a line in the Springsteen song "Johnny 99": "It was more than all this Judge that put that gun in my hand..."

It was for Hobart as well......In UCLA film school there is a class taught "Introduction to Documentary Film Making" and this film is played the first day of class...The Professor wants his students to realize that their camera can be like a gun...And they need to think about that when they go about their careers......If you don't have PBS it seems Vimeo has the entire film online free....One of the positive things that came about from Hugh O'Connor's death was Appalshop.....The young people of the mountains said, "Give us camera's and WE'LL tell OUR stories...." A grant came and Appalshop was born...The young lady who made this film was part of the first young folks from Appalshop that began to make films that are very well known today....I'll provide you the links for the film...Reviews, trailer, the film itself etc.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stranger_With_A_Camera

Stranger with a Camera | POV | PBS

California Newsreel - STRANGER WITH A CAMERA

TELEVISION REVIEW; He Turned His Camera on Appalachia, and One Man Wouldn't Stand For It - The New York Times

[video=youtube;N9RbhBNeOnU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9RbhBNeOnU[/video]

[video=youtube;JYBEhBxf3xM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYBEhBxf3xM[/video]

[video]https://vimeo.com/channels/676200/54465749[/video]


Give it a watch some time...I think you all will enjoy it.....

 

[indiucky]

Hmmmmm...Maybe I should have just sent a pm to Hough or Kirk....

 

[Birds Away]

Hmmmmm...Maybe I should have just sent a pm to Hough or Kirk....

I'm glad you didn't.

 

[snorko]

I'll have to see if I can find that on PBS. My roots are a generation or two removed from Western Kentucky but I kinda get it.

 

[Thor]

I remember driving through that area in the mid '60's. Every face had the 'ye tain't from aroun heah are ya boy' look on it.

 

[Thor]

The question of who shot first is really irrelevant, only one was going to win. Being a Canuk maybe O'Connor didn't understand that...or maybe he didn't understand the level of distrust of outsiders and the media in general.

 

[indiucky]

Being a Canuk maybe O'Connor didn't understand that...or maybe he didn't understand the level of distrust of outsiders and the media in general.

There is a line in an article from The New Yorker in 1969 about the incident that sums up what you just articulated.....

"Mister I have lived here my whole life and I wouldn't step foot on that old man's land to pick poke berries without a asking his permission..."

"But we didn't know that..."

"I bet you do now....I bet you do now...."

 

[Salty]

There is a line in an article from The New Yorker in 1969 about the incident that sums up what you just articulated.....

"Mister I have lived here my whole life and I wouldn't step foot on that old man's land to pick poke berries without a asking his permission..."

"But we didn't know that..."

"I bet you do now....I bet you do now...."

I just finished watching and that line did stand out. We weren't as poor in the small Kansas town I grew up in at that time. But I know we always spotted a stranger when they were in town. Thanks for sharing Indiucky.

 

[Dr.Midnight]

When I first started working for my current company, they placed me down in central/western/southern Kentucky. It was a different world down there. I had several customers that were pure gold, but I had an equal number that was very cold simply because I wasn't from around those parts. On the whole, I felt like those folks barely tolerated me. When my company offered me a chance to come back to Indiana and work in pretty much my back yard, I couldn't accept fast enough. I don't want to offend anyone here, but I don't miss Kentucky one bit.

 

[indiucky]

On the whole, I felt like those folks barely tolerated me. When my company offered me a chance to come back to Indiana and work in pretty much my back yard, I couldn't accept fast enough. I don't want to offend anyone here, but I don't miss Kentucky one bit.

None taken...

I just did my Ancestry DNA and they show my line leaving the British Isles and landing in Virginia in 1700...Then in 1775 the DNA line moves to Kentucky....And there it sat...I am the first generation of my paternal line to be born outside of Kentucky since the 1770's (and I was born 2 miles from Kentucky!!!)

It's weird but Kentucky stays in you and is passed on...My dad has lived in Clarksville since after Papaw came back from WW 2 but we still refer to "home" as Grayson and Muhlenberg Counties in Kentucky...Littletommy and I were talking about it the other day....He grew up with me but his tag line on his INGO location says "somewhere in a holler in Kentucky".....It stays with us...Us folks down here on the river crack Kentucky jokes all day long but let someone from NY or California crack one and we will look at them with an icy stare and say "What the **** do you mean by that you SOB?????"

If I didn't have 200 years worth of history in Kentucky I would not miss Kentucky either...But I do....My childhood was on the banks of the Ohio river and "home" always seemed to be on that south side of the river...Indiana is just where we live and work....

Even my INGO name, "Indiucky" says it all......

Even though my immediate family hasn't lived in Grayson/Ohio/Muhlenberg Counties since the War I know I could go down there and my last name alone would get me treated like a local....(Depending on which side of the feud you were on of course....) The last member of my family to die over that was on election day in the early 1920's. My grandfather's uncle and cousin were shot down that day...(The killers knew they would be in town for election day)....It was (possibly) retribution for another killing 12 years before involving my great grandfather and his brother...None of us are sure what happened but we know it was "a killing" that had to happen but there was no reason for them to stick around and endanger their wives and children over it...So they packed everything up and moved 60 miles west in a buckboard wagon...I remember asking my Great Aunt "why" her uncle and cousin got shot and (at the time) we (the younger generation) did not know about the earlier killing involving our great grandfather and his brother...I'll never forget her reply, "Honey you know the men in our family have always been trigger happy..." I replied "What does that mean??? How are we "trigger happy" if we were the one's that got shot?" She just grinned and offered me more fried chicken...

After that we called things even I reckon...Neither family ever pursued any more justice than Kentucky justice....More of a "we'll take care of this ourselves" kind of justice I suppose.....

 

[Dr.Midnight]

None taken...

I just did my Ancestry DNA and they show my line leaving the British Isles and landing in Virginia in 1700...Then in 1775 the DNA line moves to Kentucky....And there it sat...I am the first generation of my paternal line to be born outside of Kentucky since the 1770's (and I was born 2 miles from Kentucky!!!)

It's weird but Kentucky stays in you and is passed on...My dad has lived in Clarksville since after Papaw came back from WW 2 but we still refer to "home" as Grayson and Muhlenberg Counties in Kentucky...Littletommy and I were talking about it the other day....He grew up with me but his tag line on his INGO location says "somewhere in a holler in Kentucky".....It stays with us...Us folks down here on the river crack Kentucky jokes all day long but let someone from NY or California crack one and we will look at them with an icy stare and say "What the **** do you mean by that you SOB?????"

If I didn't have 200 years worth of history in Kentucky I would not miss Kentucky either...But I do....My childhood was on the banks of the Ohio river and "home" always seemed to be on that south side of the river...Indiana is just where we live and work....

Even my INGO name, "Indiucky" says it all......

Even though my immediate family hasn't lived in Grayson/Ohio/Muhlenberg Counties since the War I know I could go down there and my last name alone would get me treated like a local....(Depending on which side of the feud you were on of course....) The last member of my family to die over that was on election day in the early 1920's...My grandfather's uncle and cousin were shot down that day...(They knew they would be in town for election day)....It was (possibly) retribution for another killing 12 years before involving my great grandfather and his brother...None of us are sure what happened but we know it was "a killing" that had to happen but there was no reason for them to stick around and endanger their wives and children over it...So they packed everything up and moved 60 miles west in a buckboard wagon...I remember asking my Great Aunt WHY her uncle and cousin got shot and (at the time) we (the younger generation) did not know about the earlier killing involving our great grandfather and his brother...I'll never forget her reply, "Honey you know the men in our family have always been trigger happy..." I replied "What does that mean??? How are we "trigger happy" if we were the one's that got shot?" She just grinned and offered me more fried chicken...

After that we called things even I reckon...Neither family ever pressed charges....More of a "we'll take care of this ourselves" kind of justice.....

For a year, those counties you listed were the heart of my territory. I put a lot of miles going from Calhoun to Bremen to Central City then Greenville. On other days I would be in Hartford and Beaver Dam. I also spent time in Russellville, Elkton and Bowling Green. My favorite folks though were in Morgantown. They're the only former customer I've had to call and check on me since I left. That guy said, "If you're ever back this way, call me and I'll be here if I'm anywhere close." Those were some good folks there.

 

[DeadeyeChrista'sdad]

Crazy stuff. My grandmother was a divorcee, from McDowell, in eastern Kentucky, in the fifties. Imagine that. She packed up her 4 daughters and moved to Fort Wayne. The eldest met a dashing young airman (fortunately for me) and you can guess the rest.
Kentucky, or rather the ****ty events of their childhood, haunted all 4 unto their graves.

 

[halfmileharry]

None taken...

I just did my Ancestry DNA and they show my line leaving the British Isles and landing in Virginia in 1700...Then in 1775 the DNA line moves to Kentucky....And there it sat...I am the first generation of my paternal line to be born outside of Kentucky since the 1770's (and I was born 2 miles from Kentucky!!!)

It's weird but Kentucky stays in you and is passed on...My dad has lived in Clarksville since after Papaw came back from WW 2 but we still refer to "home" as Grayson and Muhlenberg Counties in Kentucky...Littletommy and I were talking about it the other day....He grew up with me but his tag line on his INGO location says "somewhere in a holler in Kentucky".....It stays with us...Us folks down here on the river crack Kentucky jokes all day long but let someone from NY or California crack one and we will look at them with an icy stare and say "What the **** do you mean by that you SOB?????"

If I didn't have 200 years worth of history in Kentucky I would not miss Kentucky either...But I do....My childhood was on the banks of the Ohio river and "home" always seemed to be on that south side of the river...Indiana is just where we live and work....

Even my INGO name, "Indiucky" says it all......

Even though my immediate family hasn't lived in Grayson/Ohio/Muhlenberg Counties since the War I know I could go down there and my last name alone would get me treated like a local....(Depending on which side of the feud you were on of course....) The last member of my family to die over that was on election day in the early 1920's. My grandfather's uncle and cousin were shot down that day...(The killers knew they would be in town for election day)....It was (possibly) retribution for another killing 12 years before involving my great grandfather and his brother...None of us are sure what happened but we know it was "a killing" that had to happen but there was no reason for them to stick around and endanger their wives and children over it...So they packed everything up and moved 60 miles west in a buckboard wagon...I remember asking my Great Aunt "why" her uncle and cousin got shot and (at the time) we (the younger generation) did not know about the earlier killing involving our great grandfather and his brother...I'll never forget her reply, "Honey you know the men in our family have always been trigger happy..." I replied "What does that mean??? How are we "trigger happy" if we were the one's that got shot?" She just grinned and offered me more fried chicken...

After that we called things even I reckon...Neither family ever pursued any more justice than Kentucky justice....More of a "we'll take care of this ourselves" kind of justice I suppose.....

I'm from the hills and my family still has the farm. Yea, we came up 31 to Indiana but home is always going to be the farm.
Large family with deep roots to the area.
No sense going into all the local tales and truths but i've been told of a hanging and local feuds.
I was always told it was "takin' care of your own business".
I guess I've gone citified at this point in my life.
I try not to think or live the old ways. I got better things to do with MY life

 

[Thor]

I've got an old 16 gauge single shot that I bought off an Army bud from the area. His very randy wife wanted him to sell it...it has a few feud marks carved into the stock and he had the stories to go with it. He didn't really want to part with it but his wife was...persuasive.

 

[littletommy]

I was born in Kentucky, but have lived my entire life in southern Indiana, I've never lived more than a half mile or so from the house I grew up in. I spent a lot of time as a kid in the hills of southern Kentucky, however. Mom was born and raised in Corbin, and I still have a lot of relatives there. Don't know what it is, but being down there just feels right, like I should be there. I think about the hills and hollers of Kentucky a lot. And yes, I get pissed off when I hear somebody that is not from there, say something insulting about it.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

How many of you does it take to change a lightbulb?

 

[Expat]

When I was born, we lived just about on the Magoffin and Breathitt County lines. When I say something about back home, the wife knows I am not talking about the place we have lived for 25 years.
There are a lot of good people down there that would help someone if they could, some wouldn't. I don't think anyone would want someone coming in, nosing around, trying to stir up trouble.

 

[two70]

You'll Never Leave Harlan Alive seems apropos for this thread.

Though more distant, my ties to Kentucky are certainly "colorful". My great Grandmother was an Archer, related to the infamous Archer Gang that terrorized Martin, Orange, and Dubois Counties in the late 1800s. It seems that the Archers brought their feuding ways along when they moved up from Kentucky before branching out into a variety of other criminal activities and ultimately being hanged for their crimes.

 

[littletommy]

How many of you does it take to change a lightbulb?

Only one, but he ain't here right now, he went up to London to fix his brothers truck.

 

[indiucky]

How many of you does it take to change a lightbulb?

None...

We are so bad a$$ we just point to the biggest, meanest SOB in the room and order him to do it....