Mass shooters and Body Armor

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  • Doug

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    The last two mass shooters were wearing body armor.
    How traumatic is a hit to a ballistic vest; would it hurt enough to stun the shooter for a second or two?
    Or should we just try for head shots only?

    If you have experience with being hit while wearing armor, please share.
     

    Denny347

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    The last two mass shooters were wearing body armor.
    How traumatic is a hit to a ballistic vest; would it hurt enough to stun the shooter for a second or two?
    Or should we just try for head shots only?

    If you have experience with being hit while wearing armor, please share.
    My coworker was shot in the vest and was able to get on the radio and return fire, killing the shooter. Getting hit in the vest did not slow him down a bit.
     

    Doug

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    Were they? I thought one just had a tac vest

    Maybe I'm wrong...
    I remembered the good guy in the Texas church shooting saying he tried to shoot the cowardly nut job in the side because he thought he had a vest. I thought I read that the loony little loser in California had a vest, but I can't find that reference now.

    I would have thought a couple hundred foot pounds punch to the chest might buy a second or two, but Maybe not.
     

    churchmouse

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    Maybe I'm wrong...
    I remembered the good guy in the Texas church shooting saying he tried to shoot the cowardly nut job in the side because he thought he had a vest. I thought I read that the loony little loser in California had a vest, but I can't find that reference now.

    I would have thought a couple hundred foot pounds punch to the chest might buy a second or two, but Maybe not.

    Maybe from a 12 gauge slug gun.

    Head shots. Hard as that seems to be if they are moving etc we are constantly running 8" steel plates at 21 + feet. No, they are not moving. But no one is moving all the time.
     

    Vigilant

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    Pelvic girdle and head, shoot til they stop. Pelvic girdle hits will in essence decrease mobility, and offer the opportunity to place head shots? YMMV, but those are my TTPs, If I’ve an open head shot available, I’ll take it, if not pelvic hits until a head opens up!
     

    Thor

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    It's what .45-70's are for. Super hard cast safari rounds. (say, CORBON 460gr w/ 2780 ft/lbs.) If they can take more than your shoulder they win...
     

    OakRiver

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ned_Kelly

    "In the early morning light, Kelly, dressed in his armour suit and armed only with a revolver, attacked the police from the rear. The police returned fire but to no effect as Kelly moved coolly from tree to tree, his armour repelling the bullets. Sergeant Steele realised that Kelly's legs were unprotected and shot them twice; the second brought him to the ground with the cry, "I am done—I am done". Kelly howled and swore at the police. Steele seized him, but Kelly fired again, blowing the sergeant's helmet off. Kelly gradually became quiet, shot in the left foot, left leg, right hand, left arm and twice in the region of the groin. But no bullet had penetrated his armour. He was carried to the railway station, placed in a guard's van and then taken to the stationmaster's office, where his wounds were dressed by Dr. John Nicholson from Benalla"
     

    Vigilant

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    Keep shooting until they go down. These plates don't last many shots especially from a fast moving bullet. Speed kills armor.
    Based on what? What plates are you talking about? Stand alone LVL IV plates can take multiple hits from common handgun rounds, as well as multiple rifle rounds? AR500 plates would take forever to “burn through” with common self defense rounds that’s why they use them as targets? Methinks you may want to rethink your anti-armor strategy?
     

    avboiler11

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    A good friend of mine growing up had a dad that was a SWAT officer; he took a 30-30 to the chest upon entry and vest saved his life but it broke a LOT of ribs. Of course, a 30-30 at 7 yards ain't a 124gr 9mm +P.

    I'm not military or LEO...but have a hard time believing a round impacting a vest isn't going to at the VERY least hurt like a MFer, if not break ribs; depending on the weapon/projectile that's a fair bit of energy that has to be dissipated so as to prevent penetration. May not take them out of the fight on a single or even second hit, but just shrug a hit off? I don't think any of us would volunteer to take a baseball bat swing to the vest...

    May we all continue practicing failure to stop drills and not need them!
     

    Brad69

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    Sweet! a subject I can speak about
    1. It appears from people that were shot about 2 feet away from me that getting shot while wearing body armor hurts like a b)*&#!
    2. SAPI plates or the civilian equivalent can take 7.62 NATO AP hits it would take several hits before they would break up.
    3. Most of the modern vests I have been around have side plates so that so that shooting the side thing not so much.
    4. Wounds from rounds going through plates spread the plate material along the wound channel.
    5. Pelvic girdle, Head, Leg’s good targets if you can hit them.
    6. It has a psychological effect on the enemy to hit somebody and they don’t go down and keep fighting it can make the bad or good guys run.
    7. Do not get stuck in the mentality you have to shoot a certain drill. If you shoot and the threat is not gone keep shooting till the threat is gone that may mean shooting after they are on the ground “violence of action” fight like a Honey Badger” you have already made the decision to kill the person do it!
    Do not let the fact it seems like you are shooting down a darkened tunnel or you can’t hear anything and it seems your hearts going about 300 BPM bother you!

    I have personally witnessed Soldiers take multiple hits to body armor and keep on going!
    I have also witnessed Soldiers get scared of the sound of gunfire and run away!

    In the end you don’t bring a pistol to a rifle fight if you do good luck!
     

    KellyinAvon

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