What constitutes serious bodily injury?

[CHCRandy]

I was just curious if anyone knows in the case of adult on adult battery.....what makes it serious bodily injury if no weapons involved?

 

[KJQ6945]

Tends to vary county to county. Where a black eye or a fat lip might qualify in Haliton County, in Marion County, closer to death.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Tends to vary county to county. Where a black eye or a fat lip might qualify in Haliton County, in Marion County, closer to death.

What? No, it's defined in the Indiana Code.

From memory:

1. permanent disfigure
2. knocked out
3. extreme pain
4. loss of member or organ
5. loss of a fetus.

It's in the definitions in 35. I'll get you a cite in a minute.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

35-31.5-2-292.

Think of it like this:

bodily injury=pain

moderate bodily injury=substantial pain

serious bodily injury=extreme pain

 

[T.Lex]

https://www.in.gov/judiciary/opinions/pdf/08170714pdm.pdf

First hit in a google search for me. Has the statutory definition and a bit of explanation about what fits and what doesn't.

Google search = "indiana court of appeals definition of serious bodily injury"

ETA:
That case was before the changes to the "level" of felony, so it might not be directly applicable to current law.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

https://www.in.gov/judiciary/opinions/pdf/08170714pdm.pdf

First hit in a google search for me. Has the statutory definition and a bit of explanation about what fits and what doesn't.

Google search = "indiana court of appeals definition of serious bodily injury"

ETA:
That case was before the changes to the "level" of felony, so it might not be directly applicable to current law.

It still have the definition of SBI. In 2014 the GA created the Moderate Bodily Injury definition.

 

[HoughMade]

What does the jury think "serious bodily injury" is? On the low end, a court will get involved, but if there is probative evidence that there may be "extreme pain"....

 

[grunt soldier]

Tends to vary county to county. Where a black eye or a fat lip might qualify in Haliton County, in Marion County, closer to death.

Don't listen to this advice lol. Kirk is right and then even still it depends. I took one where a tv was smashed on a ladies head. Required an ambulance ride and 9 stables to close it up. I filed under SBI and it was down graded to moderate bodily injury.

 

[KJQ6945]

What? No, it's defined in the Indiana Code.

From memory:

1. permanent disfigure
2. knocked out
3. extreme pain
4. loss of member or organ
5. loss of a fetus.

It's in the definitions in 35. I'll get you a cite in a minute.

My apologies counselor.
I was referring more to the practical application by the prosecutors, as opposed to the legal definition. Maybe I should have used a lighter shade of purple.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

My apologies counselor.
I was referring more to the practical application by the prosecutors, as opposed to the legal definition. Maybe I should have used a lighter shade of purple.

Prosecutor uses the law and case law. Anything else would be overturned on appeal.

There is not a ton of wiggle room on SBI. Moderate bodily injury is newer and not as well established in case law. Could be some "finding the line" cases there.

 

[T.Lex]

There is also the following dynamic (and variations of them).
- The victim probably thinks its SBI, regardless whether it is or not.
- The police can write it up as SBI, but the prosecutor may not.
- The prosecutor can charge it as SBI based on what they think a local jury would think, but the defense attorney won't agree.
- The guilty plea will probably be to something less than SBI (unless there's an attempt murder or something else to take off the table).
- The judge/jury at trial will ultimately figure it out.

 

[CHCRandy]

As an example...if you just pull up on someone(not a random victim, mitigating factors) and beat the living crap out of them. I am talking walking tall ass kickin minus the stick. I am talking broken jaw, busted ribs, teeth gone type ass kickin.....with enough money, can an attorney plea that down to a misd. or are you gonna catch a felony for sure?

Just FYI, The mitigating circumstances is a home burglar or robber or whatever it is when someone breaks in and steals your stuff, suspect was busted couple of weeks later(he had robbed over 50 houses)....if a homeowner beats the crap out of the bad guy now, is he going to get a felony?

 

[T.Lex]

Yes, most likely. The broken jaw/busted ribs being problematic. IMHO.

And, you probably know this, but public statements in public forums can be considered evidence.

 

[HoughMade]

Yes, most likely. The broken jaw/busted ribs being problematic. IMHO.

And, you probably know this, but public statements in public forums can be considered evidence.

^ This....but it will depend, to an extent, on the context of the beating. During the crime or some time after? Don't answer if you don't want to, but know that makes a big, big difference. If by "now" you mean planning to encounter him and give the beating, if that is shown by evidence, i would think that the felony charge is assured, whether they will plea bargain it? Too many unknowns to evaluate, but assuming they have all the evidence of exactly what happened and why, less likely.

 

[T.Lex]

...when someone breaks in and steals your stuff, suspect was busted couple of weeks later(he had robbed over 50 houses)....if a homeowner beats the crap out of the bad guy now, is he going to get a felony?

Uh... bolded part.

And... well... downside is that, based on transcripts I read back in the day... it is difficult, if not impossible, to know when to stop.

That felony-maybe-misdemeanor-sentencing can turn into murder/attempt murder pretty quick.

 

[NyleRN]

Not sure why you'd write something as subjective as pain in a code. It's not measurable in an objective sense. What I say is really hurting may not be applicable to the next person. When someone has a fracture it's seen on xray. You can't say it's a little broken. Either it is or it's not

 

[T.Lex]

Not sure why you'd write something as subjective as pain in a code. It's not measurable in an objective sense. What I say is really hurting may not be applicable to the next person. When someone has a fracture it's seen on xray. You can't say it's a little broken. Either it is or it's not

Welcome to the ethereal world of legal definitions. We hope you enjoy your stay a degree appropriate for your situation while we define specific words that will require general application.

But, somewhat more seriously, it is an attempt to quantify something that - as you not - is inherently unquantifiable.

It may not be perfect, but it seems like the best system available.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Not sure why you'd write something as subjective as pain in a code. It's not measurable in an objective sense. What I say is really hurting may not be applicable to the next person. When someone has a fracture it's seen on xray. You can't say it's a little broken. Either it is or it's not

Like T.Lex said, it's not perfect but it's workable. If I interview someone as a battery victim (which for me, generally means shot or stabbed), I'll always ask about pain, scarring, missed work, lingering affects, etc. I'll also note my own observations as to injuries still visible and the time elapsed, if you appeared to be in distress, etc.

While you can't measure it, as I'm sure you know by the "RN" part of your name, you can observe it. Few folks have the ability or inclination to fake it, particularly with me as I can't prescribe them pills...if anything men tend to understate it. I'm not sure if it's an attempt to salve the ego or to look "hard" or what. "Did it hurt when he stabbed you four times with the screwdriver" gets me one of two answers. One, they look at me like I've just went full retard and say something like "*expletive* yeah, it hurt" or I'll get a shrug and "not really. I didn't even realized it happened until four days later at Rugby championships when I noticed a little blood on my ribs."

 

[T.Lex]

Like T.Lex said, it's not perfect but it's workable. If I interview someone as a battery victim (which for me, generally means shot or stabbed), I'll always ask about pain, scarring, missed work, lingering affects, etc. I'll also note my own observations as to injuries still visible and the time elapsed, if you appeared to be in distress, etc.

While you can't measure it, as I'm sure you know by the "RN" part of your name, you can observe it. Few folks have the ability or inclination to fake it, particularly with me as I can't prescribe them pills...if anything men tend to understate it. I'm not sure if it's an attempt to salve the ego or to look "hard" or what. "Did it hurt when he stabbed you four times with the screwdriver" gets me one of two answers. One, they look at me like I've just went full retard and say something like "*expletive* yeah, it hurt" or I'll get a shrug and "not really. I didn't even realized it happened until four days later at Rugby championships when I noticed a little blood on my ribs."

Reminds me of a joke. Hilarious joke.

Punch line, "Just don't poke me in the eyes."

 

[churchmouse]

As an example...if you just pull up on someone(not a random victim, mitigating factors) and beat the living crap out of them. I am talking walking tall ass kickin minus the stick. I am talking broken jaw, busted ribs, teeth gone type ass kickin.....with enough money, can an attorney plea that down to a misd. or are you gonna catch a felony for sure?

Just FYI, The mitigating circumstances is a home burglar or robber or whatever it is when someone breaks in and steals your stuff, suspect was busted couple of weeks later(he had robbed over 50 houses)....if a homeowner beats the crap out of the bad guy now, is he going to get a felony?

Yup.....that is a serious west side beat down. Fits the definition to a "T" and yes, if not an S.D. scenario there will be charges.

And as some of our most esteemed council has said......that level of ass whoopen might be attempted murder.
Yes, it is very hard to stop once you get going on someones head if the anger just keeps rolling. Like a leaky dam, once it starts it does not stop until the water is gone.
If you go out looking for, and find, the douche bag and submit him to the beat down, yup, you are in trouble. Especially now.