Last Jedi ***WITH SPOILERS***

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  • femurphy77

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    LAST WARNING, lets make this the SPOILER thread!

    O.k., the biggie: Did Luke have to "die"? My thoughts are yes! He had obviously never gotten over losing Ben to the dark side so went into voluntary exile so as to never be tempted to use the force again. If he had survived (Loved the flicking the dirt off his shoulders scene by the way) he would be a single individual in the fight but with his death he is a legend that will inspire followers for episodes to come. Just look at the kids in the final scene playing "luke skywalker" with their home grown action figures and I'm sure you picked up on the one kidding summoning the broom to him as he walked outside to hold it in a light saber like fashion!:rockwoot:
     

    Alpo

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    There was a lot good in the film. Some fantastic! My favorite scene was when Laura Dern (as Vice Admiral Holdo) takes her ship transition to light speed THROUGH the Supremacy. The physics geek in me was very very happy.

    OTOH, I thought Yoda's presence was a negative. Totally unnecessary and perhaps too revealing of what The Force may or may not be. Snoke had said enough: with powers increasing on the dark side, the light side also rose.

    I'll have more to say later.
     

    Kutnupe14

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    Ok, there are some things I'd like some one to explain to me:
    -Leia surviving 4 torpedoes to the bridge of her ship, the vacuum of space, the cold of space... her "Mary Poppins" her way from space back to he ship, the Rebels opening the door to get her in and not being sucked out
    -A person who picked up lightsaber half-a-day ago, becoming stronger than dang near every master Jedi/SITH that ever existed
    -Snoke, a guy who could use force lightening like h was some Jedi-Thor-Zeus hybrid, falling victim to the ole "control the lightsaber with mind" trick.
    -Po deciding to waste the entire rebellion bombing fleet, on one dreadnaught.
    -Chicken Hamsters
    -Rabbit Cat Horses
    -Rebels trapped on the base with one entrance, Skywalker shows up, and no one asks "hey, is there a back door to this place," before Luke trots off to spin a ruse to buy them time to escape
    -30 years have taken place between Return of the Jedi and The Last Jedi... the Rebellion can't scrounge up enough folks, and set order in the galaxy after the Empire's demise, that's after a day's battle they are so decimated that they can all fit on the Falcon?
    -Samurai Pretorian Guard
    -Knights of Ren? Where Dey? Chillin' in the lounge?
    -Maz, taking calls while in a battle?
    -Rebel pilot must have handed over his keys to the Chubby mechanic and let's her operate one of the land attack vehicles. Yes, I looked there were other pilots that did not participate in the attack.
    -Luke dies because.... he... was.... ummmm.... tired?

    Someone help me out here.
     

    Alpo

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    Ok, there are some things I'd like some one to explain to me:
    -Leia surviving 4 torpedoes to the bridge of her ship, the vacuum of space, the cold of space... her "Mary Poppins" her way from space back to he ship, the Rebels opening the door to get her in and not being sucked out

    Yes. Dumb. Hokey. I'd throw that in the pile with the unnecessary appearance of Yoda (and Maz).
    -A person who picked up lightsaber half-a-day ago, becoming stronger than dang near every master Jedi/SITH that ever existed

    Skills are skills, man. She has been using a quarterstaff since she was a kid. Athletes can transition between sports amazingly well. I'd give her a pass on this one.

    -Snoke, a guy who could use force lightening like h was some Jedi-Thor-Zeus hybrid, falling victim to the ole "control the lightsaber with mind" trick.

    I didn't have a problem with this. Ego clouds judgement.
    -30 years have taken place between Return of the Jedi and The Last Jedi... the Rebellion can't scrounge up enough folks, and set order in the galaxy after the Empire's demise, that's after a day's battle they are so decimated that they can all fit on the Falcon?

    I think sometimes these writers don't understand the size of the galaxy. 200 to 300 billion stars. 100,000 light years in diameter. It's freaking huge.
    -Samurai Pretorian Guard
    Awesome!
     

    chipbennett

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    Ok, there are some things I'd like some one to explain to me:
    -Leia surviving 4 torpedoes to the bridge of her ship, the vacuum of space, the cold of space... her "Mary Poppins" her way from space back to he ship, the Rebels opening the door to get her in and not being sucked out
    -A person who picked up lightsaber half-a-day ago, becoming stronger than dang near every master Jedi/SITH that ever existed
    -Snoke, a guy who could use force lightening like h was some Jedi-Thor-Zeus hybrid, falling victim to the ole "control the lightsaber with mind" trick.
    -Po deciding to waste the entire rebellion bombing fleet, on one dreadnaught.
    -Chicken Hamsters
    -Rabbit Cat Horses
    -Rebels trapped on the base with one entrance, Skywalker shows up, and no one asks "hey, is there a back door to this place," before Luke trots off to spin a ruse to buy them time to escape
    -30 years have taken place between Return of the Jedi and The Last Jedi... the Rebellion can't scrounge up enough folks, and set order in the galaxy after the Empire's demise, that's after a day's battle they are so decimated that they can all fit on the Falcon?
    -Samurai Pretorian Guard
    -Knights of Ren? Where Dey? Chillin' in the lounge?
    -Maz, taking calls while in a battle?
    -Rebel pilot must have handed over his keys to the Chubby mechanic and let's her operate one of the land attack vehicles. Yes, I looked there were other pilots that did not participate in the attack.
    -Luke dies because.... he... was.... ummmm.... tired?

    Someone help me out here.

    I agree (especially the highlighted ones), but most of these, really, are par for the course in the Star Wars universe.

    My biggest issues/questions:

    1. No back story for Snoke? Nothing? At all?
    2. Are we supposed to be satisfied with the "let the past die" explanation Kylo Ren gives us? Sorry, but we have to get from EpVI to EpVII *somehow*. Where did the First Order come from? Who is Snoke? (Maybe some of this gets answered in EpIX, because Kylo Ren's character still has to get resolved, and it was Snoke who drew him to the dark side.)
    3. Luke's Force-disappearance. I can buy that he went the way of Obi-Wan and Yoda. But how do decades-worth of angst, fear, bitterness, etc. all get resolved in a few days with Rey?
    4. First Order Dreadnaughts must be the biggest piece-of-crap capital ships ever designed.
    5. The way-too-convenient offing of several, legendary characters (and some new ones). Again, you can only take the "let the past die" thing so far, before it becomes a trite crutch.
    6. The last of the Resistance fleet, running out of fuel, being chased by the First Order fleet under sublight power. (Are micro-jumps and Interdictors not things anymore?)

    Things I really liked:

    1. The Jacen/Jaina:Ren/Rey parallel being further developed
    2. The very obvious mirroring of ESB, in several overt and subtle ways

    I'm sure there's more, but that's a good starting point.
     

    Kutnupe14

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    I agree (especially the highlighted ones), but most of these, really, are par for the course in the Star Wars universe.

    My biggest issues/questions:

    1. No back story for Snoke? Nothing? At all?
    2. Are we supposed to be satisfied with the "let the past die" explanation Kylo Ren gives us? Sorry, but we have to get from EpVI to EpVII *somehow*. Where did the First Order come from? Who is Snoke? (Maybe some of this gets answered in EpIX, because Kylo Ren's character still has to get resolved, and it was Snoke who drew him to the dark side.)
    3. Luke's Force-disappearance. I can buy that he went the way of Obi-Wan and Yoda. But how do decades-worth of angst, fear, bitterness, etc. all get resolved in a few days with Rey?
    4. First Order Dreadnaughts must be the biggest piece-of-crap capital ships ever designed.
    5. The way-too-convenient offing of several, legendary characters (and some new ones). Again, you can only take the "let the past die" thing so far, before it becomes a trite crutch.
    6. The last of the Resistance fleet, running out of fuel, being chased by the First Order fleet under sublight power. (Are micro-jumps and Interdictors not things anymore?)

    Things I really liked:

    1. The Jacen/Jaina:Ren/Rey parallel being further developed
    2. The very obvious mirroring of ESB, in several overt and subtle ways

    I'm sure there's more, but that's a good starting point.

    Lol... pure steaming craps of engineering

    1/2. Yeah Snoke? Just a guy who is arguably the strongest force user we've ever seen, and we have zero idea who he is?
    3. Obi-1 died after Vader struck him. Yoda died because he was very old and sick. Luke was like "#@%& it, I'm tired" and poof, gone.
    5. Admiral Akbar, blown up on the bridge... and just a passing mention.
     

    K_W

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    I would have accepted Porgs if they were Force sensitive or at least did something besides squawk and freak out about everything.

    Leah should have died when the bridge was destroyed, but the scene should have been at the end where instead of that random Admiral, Leia pilots he cruiser towards Snokes ship and the surprise would have been the bridge blowing up as she spools up the light drive last view of her is in space as the ship blows up behind her.

    Now they have to kill her off with some cheap off-screen subplot, as I've already said they're not going to CGI her.
     

    Kutnupe14

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    I would have accepted Porgs if they were Force sensitive or at least did something besides squawk and freak out about everything.

    Leah should have died when the bridge was destroyed, but the scene should have been at the end where instead of that random Admiral, Leia pilots he cruiser towards Snokes ship and the surprise would have been the bridge blowing up as she spools up the light drive last view of her is in space as the ship blows up behind her.

    Now they have to kill her off with some cheap off-screen subplot, as I've already said they're not going to CGI her.

    That was one of my MAJOR issues with this film. Jedi aren't immortal (Leia ain't even a Jedi). You can take one down with a blaster.... well you used to. Now you put two missiles up their #@$, take away their oxygen, then freeze them.... they have the potential to "wake up" and then Mary Poppins float to safety. The characters in this movies are ridiculously overpowered.
     

    K_W

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    The most F'd up part about it is that they knew right after shooting wrapped that Carrie Fisher had died, they have all the shots they need they just had to mix the scenes up, reshoot a couple, and then you have hero Leia versus zombie Leia cowering in a cave.
     

    K_W

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    Don't even get me started on what they did to Admiral Ackbar. HIis caracter deserved so much more than just "Oh, by the way he died"
     

    RugerRog

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    I thought the humor was a bit over done - too much.
    The movie felt like it would not end, like the 3rd LOTR, it just kept going and going.
    Luke seemed out of character, almost like he had gone back to his immature ways in A New Hope, and ESB.

    I agree with this, -A person who picked up lightsaber half-a-day ago, becoming stronger than dang near every master Jedi/SITH that ever existed. In the previous stories it took the padawans years of training to master the force and a light sabre.

    Good note, The stories, dialog and acting are much better than if Lucas was still involved!
     

    Woobie

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    Ok, there are some things I'd like some one to explain to me:
    -Leia surviving 4 torpedoes to the bridge of her ship, the vacuum of space, the cold of space... her "Mary Poppins" her way from space back to he ship, the Rebels opening the door to get her in and not being sucked out
    -A person who picked up lightsaber half-a-day ago, becoming stronger than dang near every master Jedi/SITH that ever existed
    -Snoke, a guy who could use force lightening like h was some Jedi-Thor-Zeus hybrid, falling victim to the ole "control the lightsaber with mind" trick.
    -Po deciding to waste the entire rebellion bombing fleet, on one dreadnaught.
    -Chicken Hamsters
    -Rabbit Cat Horses
    -Rebels trapped on the base with one entrance, Skywalker shows up, and no one asks "hey, is there a back door to this place," before Luke trots off to spin a ruse to buy them time to escape
    -30 years have taken place between Return of the Jedi and The Last Jedi... the Rebellion can't scrounge up enough folks, and set order in the galaxy after the Empire's demise, that's after a day's battle they are so decimated that they can all fit on the Falcon?
    -Samurai Pretorian Guard
    -Knights of Ren? Where Dey? Chillin' in the lounge?
    -Maz, taking calls while in a battle?
    -Rebel pilot must have handed over his keys to the Chubby mechanic and let's her operate one of the land attack vehicles. Yes, I looked there were other pilots that did not participate in the attack.
    -Luke dies because.... he... was.... ummmm.... tired?

    Someone help me out here.

    I didn't like the Leia bridge scene. But as far as using the Force, she always has. Not a big deal. The crew not getting sucked out was weird.

    Rey is crazy powerful. She is the balance to Kylo. My thinking on it is that there are a lot fewer Force users now than 60 years ago. It isn't as "diluted" so to speak. She has a purpose, just like Anakin did. The Force makes these things happen.

    Snoke was concentrating, and bending the will of two very powerful Force users at that point. Palpatine didn't see Vader coming either.

    Po was reckless and impetuous, that was a major theme of the movie. He couldn't see past his heroic moment to the long term detriment. He's a great pilot, not an admiral.

    Weird Star Wars animals are a staple of the franchise. Walrus-Giraffe-Cows are in that same vein.

    I don't know, they did mention the back entrance within a couple of minutes of seeing Luke show up. I don't see the issue there.

    The Rebellion didn't lose all those people in one battle. Hux has been kicking their butts all across the galaxy. This was just the culmination of all that.

    The Imperial Guards have always been that awesome. It's good to see them finally get some play.

    I wish we could have seen the Knights of Ren.

    The Maz scene was weird. Could have been handled differently.

    Yeah, that girl piloting was a strange stretch.

    Luke died the same way Yoda did. I didn't find that odd at all.
     
    Last edited:

    K_W

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    No, Yoda dies of natural causes and his body takes several minutes to disappear, Obi-Wan gave himself over to the force as you can clearly see his robe starts to fall before Vader's lightsaber reaches his body. Luke just gave himself over to the force the same as Obi-Wan did.

    I expect Luke's Force ghost will play the same role with Rey as Obi-Wan's did in 5 and 6
     

    Woobie

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    I agree (especially the highlighted ones), but most of these, really, are par for the course in the Star Wars universe.

    My biggest issues/questions:

    1. No back story for Snoke? Nothing? At all?
    2. Are we supposed to be satisfied with the "let the past die" explanation Kylo Ren gives us? Sorry, but we have to get from EpVI to EpVII *somehow*. Where did the First Order come from? Who is Snoke? (Maybe some of this gets answered in EpIX, because Kylo Ren's character still has to get resolved, and it was Snoke who drew him to the dark side.)
    3. Luke's Force-disappearance. I can buy that he went the way of Obi-Wan and Yoda. But how do decades-worth of angst, fear, bitterness, etc. all get resolved in a few days with Rey?
    4. First Order Dreadnaughts must be the biggest piece-of-crap capital ships ever designed.
    5. The way-too-convenient offing of several, legendary characters (and some new ones). Again, you can only take the "let the past die" thing so far, before it becomes a trite crutch.
    6. The last of the Resistance fleet, running out of fuel, being chased by the First Order fleet under sublight power. (Are micro-jumps and Interdictors not things anymore?)

    Things I really liked:

    1. The Jacen/Jaina:Ren/Rey parallel being further developed
    2. The very obvious mirroring of ESB, in several overt and subtle ways

    I'm sure there's more, but that's a good starting point.

    1/2. We'll get the Snoke and First Order story in a non-Episode. Again, I think this is a bias thing. Let the movie happen instead of expecting certain answers.

    3. Luke's resolution was in admitting what happened between him and Kylo, being reminded by R2 of his true values, having some Quality Time with Yoda while his lifelong ambition of destroying the Jedi order came to fruition.

    4. Not just First Order capital ships, but all capital ships. Republic cruisers, the Super Star Destroyer and both Death Stars have been plagued by weak spots. But to be fair, that big ship in the end took a direct hit from a rebel cruiser at light speed and didn't turn to dust. That's pretty tough. If we want to start talking physics, that sort of energy probably would take out a planet.

    5. I think the "Let the past die" line might be pointed at viewers more than on screen characters. Besides, it's Kylo having trouble rectifying his actions with his deeper values. It's his way of avoiding his internal conflict. Vader was better at it, but he had a lot more time to practice, and still dealt with internal conflict.

    6. Were micro-jumps ever a thing in the movies? Again, you have to ignore what somebody wrote in a book or video game and let the movies stand on their own. What I didn't get is why they didn't peel off a few Star destroyers and park them in the path of the cruiser. Hux isn't much of an admiral. So how does he get into that position? I'm more irritated by the selection process of the leadership than the quality of their equipment. But they have a strong Nazi parallel, so maybe it's a matter of party loyalty.
     

    Woobie

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    The most F'd up part about it is that they knew right after shooting wrapped that Carrie Fisher had died, they have all the shots they need they just had to mix the scenes up, reshoot a couple, and then you have hero Leia versus zombie Leia cowering in a cave.

    Yeah, they missed a big opportunity there. I didn't really have a problem with the way she used the Force, just the awkwardness of her character when they could have killed her in a cool way. But that's a lot of script rearranging or cutting her out of a ton of scenes. I'm sure the latter option was off the table for sentimental reasons. Still, they could have handled her death way better. I would have liked to see her "give up the ghost" with Luke.
     

    Woobie

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    No, Yoda dies of natural causes and his body takes several minutes to disappear, Obi-Wan gave himself over to the force as you can clearly see his robe starts to fall before Vader's lightsaber reaches his body. Luke just gave himself over to the force the same as Obi-Wan did.

    I expect Luke's Force ghost will play the same role with Rey as Obi-Wan's did in 5 and 6

    I never really saw Yoda as dying from natural causes. I mean, he would have soon. But I think he chose to give himself over to the force, as you say, the same way Luke and Kenobi did, instead of going through the full dying process.
     

    K_W

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    I never really saw Yoda as dying from natural causes. I mean, he would have soon. But I think he chose to give himself over to the force, as you say, the same way Luke and Kenobi did, instead of going through the full dying process.

    "Forever sleep"... Sounds like death to me. Something that further backs up Obi-Wan giving himself to the Force is no other person or creature has ever disintegrated at the touch of a lightsaber. All the Jedis and younglings in the prequels lay dead on the ground... Even Vader's body survived long enough to be put on a funeral pyre.
     

    Woobie

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    "Forever sleep"... Sounds like death to me. Something that further backs up Obi-Wan giving himself to the Force is no other person or creature has ever disintegrated at the touch of a lightsaber. All the Jedis and younglings in the prequels lay dead on the ground... Even Vader's body survived long enough to be put on a funeral pyre.

    Yeah, I got that. What I mean is he died on his own, like Obi-Wan and Luke. They just "dematerialized" by force of will, and not because of outside forces. I think all three of them went out the same way.
     

    Ericpwp

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    Like when Yoda send obi wan off to tatooine to study. I think the whole disintegration, becoming one with the force is what he was learning.

    And Luke didn't go through the back door, he just appeared.
     
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