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  • BigMatt

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    Is there a market for a real sporting goods store? What Gander Mountain was before the expansion- what Galyans used to be - more accessible than Cabelas...

    What about a store that has nothing but real sporting goods (in my opinion)? A store where you don't have to wade through soccer shoes and sports bras to get to the gun section. A fair used gun policy. A good selection, but no boats or fudge section. Good fair prices.

    It would have guns, bows, fishing equipment and camping gear... It would have reloading stuff, targets, tents, deer stands, fishing rods, reels, lures, camp equipment...

    Just asking...
     

    SMiller

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    There is such a place in Largo Florida called Bill Jackson's, it is awesome and always has a ton of people spending lots of money on quality gear.
     

    BigMatt

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    In my mind is a place like The Outdoorsman in Greenwood except larger with a better used gun selection. Maybe about 2x as big...
     

    amboy49

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    There’s a place in Michigan that would fit your description - Jay’s Sporting Goods. However, they probably also have 10 times more hunters and fishermen than Indiana to support such a store - in large part due to the substantially greater opportunities to hunt and fish.
     

    Butch627

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    What do you mean by "More accessible than Cabelas? How would you like to see Cabelas improved on to meet your criteria?
     

    natdscott

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    Matt, you defined just about every other LGS.

    Galyans, for the record, sold--and reported good revenue from--a ****load of soccer shoes and sports bras.

    If you want to make a go of it, I suggest you sell what keeps your tax returns in the black year-over-year.

    -Nate
     

    BigMatt

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    What do you mean by "More accessible than Cabelas? How would you like to see Cabelas improved on to meet your criteria?

    Cabelas hides it better than Gander Mountain did, but they sell a huge amount of clothes. Cabelas sells boats, fudge... Hell their shoe section is bigger than their fishing section. They don't deal in used guns anymore.

    There isn't one thing that makes me say this, it is just a general vibe.
     

    BigMatt

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    Matt, you defined just about every other LGS.

    Galyans, for the record, sold--and reported good revenue from--a ****load of soccer shoes and sports bras.

    -Nate

    Like I said, what Galyans used to be - not what they turned out to be. I know they ended up just like Dick's Sporting Goods, but when I was a kid, they were a lot better.

    I am not interested in selling stuff like that. I guess that is why I started this topic. Can you be successful even though you don't carry stuff like that?
     
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    dnurk

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    Doubt it. I worked for Galyans in the good years (late 80s and early 90s) in the hunt/fish department. Margins on the stuff we sold was very low. The store profits all came from clothing, camping gear, and sports stuff. There just isn’t enough margin to be made on hunt/fish/firearms unless you can do MASSIVE volume. Jays up in Michigan is excellent as mentioned but they do rely volume of people that go “up north”all year to recreate.
     

    BigMatt

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    That used to be Gander Mountain to us. We would stop in every time we went on our annual Canada fishing trip. It seemed like everyone would stop there.
     

    natdscott

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    Can you be successful even though you don't carry stuff like that?

    I truly do not know.

    I just know, from my side of the desk, that a potential business plan needs to have a plan B, C, & D for exactly how that business is going to not only get started, but STAY started, from the standpoint of revenue.

    Bob Cheek, our ever-present and benevolent example in Plainfield, has made what appears to be a very solid living and strong business, selling basically just guns, the gunshop experience, and gun stuff; his whistling and singing is just a bonus. So if a guy adds fishing, camping, etc, then you have automajically dramatically increased your market sector (but be aware that a lot of the granola camper types don't like guns a whole bunch...), but the question is how much that additional staffing, inventory, loans, etc. actually nets you over what Bob is doing.

    The same can be said the other way...does REI really need to sell guns to keep their doors open? Hell no.

    I am not in-the-know about whether a smallish, single-location "do-all" sporting goods store is still a viable business model. Cabelas, much like other, larger chains, is big enough to take losses in a given department, or even entire locations to some extent, and avoid major financial pain overall. They can even choose to leave a given store open for the BRAND despite that single store maybe not performing at par profitability.

    You can't.

    So I think what you're doing right now--if in fact it is you that wants to undertake this thing--is great! Asking questions, making plans, buying lunches to talk to old f*&#ers that have been there and done that, remaking plans, measuring 40 times and cutting only once... It's the safe way to go.

    -Nate
     

    Vigilant

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    BigMatt, with the internet selling everything you offer, at or below your cost, you would have to have a wider variety of products, all sold at MSRP in order to pay the rent. Then guys on INGO would decry your high prices, and buy on the internet after going to your store and feeling your product.
     

    BigMatt

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    I said it before and I will clarify now. I see a shop like The Outdoorsman in Greenwood as a successful - smaller version of what I am proposing. I guess everything is about right except a little more camping stuff and a bigger gun department. More quality used guns, merchandising hiking boots and kayak/camping type stuff without going full retard on clothing and running shoes.

    We would not need to make millions on something like this, just a good living.

    I am the first one to go to Bud's Gun Shop to evaluate the price of a gun. I am one of the last to actually buy a gun online. I understand there are these people, but I hope that there might be enough people still around that appreciate a local store that carries all that stuff.

    I have been toying with the thought of opening a gun shop for years (you can read my threads about opening one in Greenfield before Highsmith opened) and I can see where a LGS that like to buy and sell used guns can make up the margins lost to new gun sales. I have also seen LGS's that hate buying and selling used guns and either hold guns forever because they sell them too high and won't deal or let guns walk out the door because they won't offer half of what a gun is worth.
     
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    natdscott

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    I would cautiously counsel that a Gunbroker et al. presence for your shop's used items is not a bad idea, and probably wouldn't take THAT much time.

    I've found a few really really nice items on the internet that almost NO local shop would have ever had, used or otherwise. When you get something like that, increasing it's market exposure is a pretty good idea, so you don't have it sitting on the rack for 496 days doing nothing but getting booger hooked.

    -Nate
     

    Old Dog

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    We would not need to make millions on something like this, just a good living.

    One problem I see across America is that most people want to make a million in their first year and therefore bypass the old fashioned mom & pop approach of working for a fair wage for a number of years. Kudos to you for taking the long term approach.
     

    Old Dog

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    Matt, you defined just about every other LGS.

    Galyans, for the record, sold--and reported good revenue from--a ****load of soccer shoes and sports bras.

    If you want to make a go of it, I suggest you sell what keeps your tax returns in the black year-over-year.

    -Nate

    Galyans Trading Post circa 1960 did not sell athletic gear and did very well. I remember going there and was just totally amazed by the amount of cool stuff. If I recall, they went public in the 80s or 90s and began an expansion program to cater to a larger audience. Kind of lost the ambiance in those new stores (at least for us hunter/shooter types).
     

    CampingJosh

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    I said it before and I will clarify now. I see a shop like The Outdoorsman in Greenwood as a successful - smaller version of what I am proposing. I guess everything is about right except a little more camping stuff and a bigger gun department. More quality used guns, merchandising hiking boots and kayak/camping type stuff without going full retard on clothing and running shoes.

    You seem really opposed to selling proper camping clothing, which is a necessity for proper camping IMO. If your goal is to get people who are willing to spend significant money to be outdoors, then outdoors clothing is important.

    I live camping. I take my dogs on a hike in the woods almost every day.
    I wear out boots, pants, socks, shirts, and jackets way quicker than guns or knives.

    I have been toying with the thought of opening a gun shop for years (you can read my threads about opening one in Greenfield before Highsmith opened) and I can see where a LGS that like to buy and sell used guns can make up the margins lost to new gun sales. I have also seen LGS's that hate buying and selling used guns and either hold guns forever because they sell them too high and won't deal or let guns walk out the door because they won't offer half of what a gun is worth.

    You keep talking about used guns. I think that you seriously overestimate the availability of used guns. Ten years ago they were common in many shops. Now sites like the classifieds here and Armslist make it easy to sell to an individual for more than a shop can pay.

    But to answer the actual question of the thread, no, I don't believe that there is a place for the type of store you envision. I wouldn't want to try to enter in-person retail sales now no matter what the product focus.
     

    churchmouse

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    Cabelas hides it better than Gander Mountain did, but they sell a huge amount of clothes. Cabelas sells boats, fudge... Hell their shoe section is bigger than their fishing section. They don't deal in used guns anymore.

    There isn't one thing that makes me say this, it is just a general vibe.

    I seriously miss Galyans.
     
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