Clogged water heaters?

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  • Cameramonkey

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    On Sunday at my church they thought the hot water lines froze. Somebody forgot to trickle the water and we couldnt get any pressure out of any of the 8 faucets on the hot side.

    There are two sides to the church, and each side has its own heater. Great. We left them all on and the head trustee and I discussed checking every several hours to see if they thawed, if there were any split lines, etc.

    I went to check last night and in the sanctuary mens room I only got a trickle, but it was hot. So DEFINITELY not frozen. But I still had zero pressure on the rest of the faucets. I know that mixer has issues and they were planning on replacing it with an ADA(ish) compliant faucet anyway so I thought that might be the problem.

    Then as I was wandering the church today measuring for supply lines to replace the faucets I had a revelation: What are the odds ALL the mixers failed. Not likely. Its a supply issue. And then Mrs Monkey mentioned over the summer she couldnt get hardly any hot pressure in the kitchen, and I recall the same. So over the last 6 months we have gradually lost hot side pressure.

    The only odd thing is there are two heaters in play, so they both have to have clogged. These are electric units.

    So what says INGO? gunk clogging the pickup tube? junk in the lines? One is professionally plumbed with copper. The other was a self install by a trustee using grey pex or PVC/CPVC. (havent been able to tell yet. )

    This one I'm tearing into tomorrow. The rust buildup around that connector is troubling. Thats why Im thinking its all rust and sediment. The water supply here is very hard, but no dissolved iron and no red stains on any fixtures.

    IMG_3878.jpg

    EDIT: Important point is these tanks sit for days at a time with no use. Possibly even weeks at a time with minimal use. So not much flow to keep sediment from forming.

    EDIT2: Screens are good. Cold water flows freely on each faucet.
     
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    red_zr24x4

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    Take the screens off the faucets to see if they have a bunch of rust / lime in them.
    If that checks out shut off the water supply to the heater and kill the power (if electric) or shut off the gas supply and drain. see how much gunk and or water comes out
     

    Cameramonkey

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    Take the screens off the faucets to see if they have a bunch of rust / lime in them.
    If that checks out shut off the water supply to the heater and kill the power (if electric) or shut off the gas supply and drain. see how much gunk and or water comes out

    Cold water flows fine. Aerators are clear. Its only the hot side that is affected.

    EDIT: And thank God they are electric. THOSE I am comfy working on. I replaced my water heater twice.
     
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    red_zr24x4

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    Kill the power / gas and drain see how much gunk comes out.
    I had one that was full of lime scale up to the bottom element (electric) that shorted out the element.
     

    1911ly

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    Would seem strange to me. Especially if it is gas. I have seen electric water heater with so much lime scale that I have had to drive a foot long screw driver up threw the drains valve pipe to get water to drain. Our water up hear has so much lime in it. It seems to build up on the heating elements and then flake off and end up in the bottom. I have never seem flow issues with them.

    I am with Red. Check screens in the faucets. Or maybe you have a plugged water softener? I had that happen here a few years back.
     

    Cameramonkey

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    Would seem strange to me. Especially if it is gas. I have seen electric water heater with so much lime scale that I have had to drive a foot long screw driver up threw the drains valve pipe to get water to drain. Our water up hear has so much lime in it. It seems to build up on the heating elements and then flake off and end up in the bottom. I have never seem flow issues with them.

    I am with Red. Check screens in the faucets. Or maybe you have a plugged water softener? I had that happen here a few years back.

    Screens are good, and no softener.
     

    red_zr24x4

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    I would shut off the power, the cold supply, drain, turn on the cold and flush.
    How close is a drain to the heater? you might need a hose. once its drained you might have to remove the drain spigot and use a rod to break up ther scale
     

    Cameramonkey

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    I would shut off the power, the cold supply, drain, turn on the cold and flush.
    How close is a drain to the heater? you might need a hose. once its drained you might have to remove the drain spigot and use a rod to break up ther scale


    I have the hose and all my tools ready to go for tomorrow after work. Going to flush it first and see what happens. I have a rig that attaches to my wet vac and I can remove the lower element and suck lime chips out the bottom. Im going to try the same tomorrow. Last time I did that on my home unit I got about 5 gallons of chips, or to the level just below the lower element.
     

    churchmouse

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    You can pull the bottom heater to get the water out if the spigot is blocked and will not drain. You will also be able to see in the tank as to condition.
    It seems odd to me that the hot water supply would be blocked. It is high in the tank if memory serves. Cold water comes inn low but I might be thinking gas units.
     

    GodFearinGunTotin

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    You can pull the bottom heater to get the water out if the spigot is blocked and will not drain. You will also be able to see in the tank as to condition.
    It seems odd to me that the hot water supply would be blocked. It is high in the tank if memory serves. Cold water comes inn low but I might be thinking gas units.

    Yep...But seems like my brother had and issue years ago with his WH plugging up after they had a water line burst down the road from him. I don't remember if he cut the water heater open to see but I seem to remember him believing a bunch of junk got washed into his and some of his neighbors' tanks during that event.
     

    Hoosier Carry

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    Galvenized nipple and elbow should be taken out. They have been know to rust/grow shut. I've seen galvenized pipe completely closed by the rust inside. Should replace with brass or dielectric unions. 2cents
     

    Rookie

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    Galvenized nipple and elbow should be taken out. They have been know to rust/grow shut. I've seen galvenized pipe completely closed by the rust inside. Should replace with brass or dielectric unions. 2cents

    I'm betting this is the problem. Get rid of the galvanized and put in dielectric unions.
     

    Cameramonkey

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    I'm betting this is the problem. Get rid of the galvanized and put in dielectric unions.


    Thats my bet too given the external rust. Though Not sure what is up with the other one that has rigid copper sweated to the unit in what appears to be a very nice, professional install.

    My only concern with the one shown is exactly how to interface with that mystery plastic. I'm hoping sharkbite works.
     

    GodFearinGunTotin

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    Thats my bet too given the external rust. Though Not sure what is up with the other one that has rigid copper sweated to the unit in what appears to be a very nice, professional install.

    My only concern with the one shown is exactly how to interface with that mystery plastic. I'm hoping sharkbite works.

    Do they feed in series or in parallel? I've seen them plumbed both ways.
     

    Arm America

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    Check the connection at the factory nipple on the hot discharge where it connects to the piping . Disconnect and drive a long screwdriver down the hot factory nipple .
     

    Cameramonkey

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    Do they feed in series or in parallel? I've seen them plumbed both ways.

    Parallel.

    Check the connection at the factory nipple on the hot discharge where it connects to the piping . Disconnect and drive a long screwdriver down the hot factory nipple .

    Watch your language, son. We are in mixed company. :laugh:
     

    Cameramonkey

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    TL;DR They were installed in series, (cold supply of the kitchen pulls from the hot side of the Sanctuary). Somebody cranked down the supply gate valve on the sanctuary heater, reducing pressure to almost nothing. And apparently in the chaos of troubleshooting what was thought to be frozen lines, it was turned off even more. We now have full pressure on both sides for the first time since at least March.

    Full story:

    We started on the kitchen heater. I disconnected the power, and tried draining it. Nope. hardly anything came out the drain except cloudy lime water. So I hooked the hose up to the blowoff. Hardly any water there. And I could hear after a minute, air gurgling back up into the tank.

    I grabbed the cold side plastic and noticed a white ring behind the fitting around the grey tube. I pushed it in easily toward the fitting and out popped the supply line. Dry as a bone. We should have been getting facefulls of cold water.

    We started painfully tracing the line back in the general direction of the other water heater. (not toward the bathrooms the dry heater supplied) The head trustee I was working with had an idea. He walked back to the sanctuary heater and pointed out a gate valve we hadnt noticed before on the cold side of the tank. It was partially closed. We started opening the valve and could hear the heater starting to fill. It sounded like there was some air at the very top of the tank. But not much. (well above the upper element)

    A few seconds later, water running in the bathroom. Magically we had hot water again.

    We went to the kitchen and sure enough, Water there too. Problem solved!


    Here is my big question. Isnt a 200' run of 1/2" pipe full of hot water a waste snice most of it cools just sitting there before reaching the other end? Why not deliver cold to the other heater and let it do all the work? Seems like a lot of wasted heat energy by sending hot water through the ceiling lines, only to in most cases not have that water reach the other side and sit and cool down in the pipe. So in that case where somebody washed hands at the far end, didnt they just use energy to heat the water from the far tank that they felt, and lots of heat energy go to waste in the pipe from the first heater because it never actually reached the other tank and was never used? (heated water ends up sitting in the ceiling, not reaching the other heater until well after it cools) Wouldnt it be more cost efficient for each tank to only deliver heat to their respective sides of the house?


    Thanks for the guidance and advice again. INGO ROCKS!
     

    woowoo2

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    I have a rig that attaches to my wet vac and I can remove the lower element and suck lime chips out the bottom..

    Is this some sort of factory made tool?
    I use a piece of 1/2 inch copper pipe formed into a spoon shape, and it is a painfully slow process.
    I would love to find a new method for removing the scale.

    I am considering using vinegar next time I have to do this.
    Thoughts?
     

    JettaKnight

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    Here is my big question. Isnt a 200' run of 1/2" pipe full of hot water a waste snice most of it cools just sitting there before reaching the other end? Why not deliver cold to the other heater and let it do all the work? Seems like a lot of wasted heat energy by sending hot water through the ceiling lines, only to in most cases not have that water reach the other side and sit and cool down in the pipe. So in that case where somebody washed hands at the far end, didnt they just use energy to heat the water from the far tank that they felt, and lots of heat energy go to waste in the pipe from the first heater because it never actually reached the other tank and was never used? (heated water ends up sitting in the ceiling, not reaching the other heater until well after it cools) Wouldnt it be more cost efficient for each tank to only deliver heat to their respective sides of the house?


    Thanks for the guidance and advice again. INGO ROCKS!

    Let me guess: it's uninsulated, too. :rolleyes:
     

    Cameramonkey

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    Is this some sort of factory made tool?
    I use a piece of 1/2 inch copper pipe formed into a spoon shape, and it is a painfully slow process.
    I would love to find a new method for removing the scale.

    I am considering using vinegar next time I have to do this.
    Thoughts?


    Thats a lot of vinegar! If yours are anything like mine, I end up with so much I dont think any reasonable amount of vinegar would help. Then you have the task of getting ALL that vinegar out so you dont smell/taste it for a while.

    This is what I built. 3' of 3/4" tubing, shoved INSIDE the end of a vac extension tube. If the flexible hose is not INSIDE the extension tube, the lip of the extension creates a snag point and it clogs VERY easily. I had to flare out this extension a bit so that it doesnt create a pinch point for the chips to clog at. The key is to keep adding water to the chips while going SLOW. Its very easy to get excited and clog it. Wet chips flow very easily whereas relatively dry ones clog easy. Remove the lower element and this goes right into that hole easily.

    IMG_3885.JPG
     
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